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[OT] New York State alcohol laws

Posted by jtwcornell91 
[OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.rgv.res.rr.com)
Date: September 23, 2005 08:44AM

Okay, this is completely off topic, but this community is likely to know the answer given the number of law students, former law students, and people who turned 18 in the 1980s on this forum.

After watching the first two episodes of Reunion (set in 1986 and 1987), one thing that's struck me as a historical inaccuracy is the main characters (who graduated high school in 1986 and thus are presumably between the ages of 17 and 19 in these episodes) drinking openly, particularly in bars. I could swear the New York State drinking age had already been raised to 21 by 1986, but I can't actually find the date anywhere. I know it was raised from 18 to 19, and then to 21, and I know I was never old enough to drink until I was 21, which means it had to be 21 by 1988 and 19 by 1987. Does anybody have concrete or personal confirmation of when the laws were changed? (I know they didn't grandfather them in, and I believe some people were 18 when the age was raised to 19 and 19 or 20 when it was raised to 21.) Oh, the one other thing I do know is that the federal law that blackmailed states into raising the drinking age to 21 was passed in 1984.


 
___________________________
JTW

@jtwcornell91@hostux.social
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Give My Regards (---.oracorp.com)
Date: September 23, 2005 09:56AM

I'm a bit surprised that I can still remember this, but the state law raising the drinking age to 19 went into effect in December of 1982. The last day of classes and the various fall formals coincided with the last day 18-year-olds would be able to legally drink.

I was already 21 (at least) when the age was raised to 21 in NY, so that would have happened in 1985 or later.

 
___________________________
If you lead a good life, go to Sunday school and church, and say your prayers every night, when you die, you'll go to LYNAH!

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2005 09:58AM by fenwick.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Tub(a) (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 09:59AM

1985 according to this (http://www.nyblade.com/2005/4-8/locallife/main/roxy.cfm) sketchy source. I also found a Reagan speech saying that all but seven states had a 21 year old minimum in December 1986.

 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Trotsky (---.cust-rtr.swbell.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 10:06AM

It was legal for me to drink as an 18-year old in January 1982 and as a 20-year old in January 1984. I dimly recall being pretty close to the cusp.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: ericho_4511 (---.plymouth.edu)
Date: September 23, 2005 12:54PM

My birthday happens to be 1/2/67, so I remember this vividly.

During my freshman year on 1/1/85 New York raised the drinking age to 19 (just one day before I turned 18). However, they grandfathered in everyone that had turned 18 the previous year (most of my friends).:-(

During my sophomore year, on 1/1/86 they raised the drinking age from 19 to 21 and DID NOT grandfather anyone in. Once again I just missed the cut. :-(

Therefore many of my friends that had been able to legally drink for 1-2 years suddenly were not legal anymore. I distinctly remember a bunch of them buying several cases of beer (5 or 6) and hoarding it throughout the spring semester.

The running joke among my friends and family was that they would raise the drinking age to 30 when I turned 21 :-).

Cheers,

Eric
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: September 23, 2005 02:08PM

Of course, the alternative explanation could be that the show takes place in the kind of town where they just don't pay attention to such rules. nut
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 02:11PM

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Drew (199.43.32.---)
Date: September 23, 2005 03:54PM

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.
[/q]

Or increase the age of licensed drivers to 21 to coincide.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: RichH (---.chvlva.adelphia.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 09:55PM

[Q]billhoward Wrote:

There's a great Wizard of Id cartoon from the 1980s, something like this:

"They're raising the drinking age"
"What good will it do?"
"There'll be no drunkenness on the front lines."

Stupid law, two decades later. You get in more trouble being a 19-year-old with a six pack of beer than with a bag of pot, especially if you're a first offender.

The incidence of drunken driven accidents & fatalities rises until men are in their mid-20s, so really, if highway safety is what it's all about, you have to raise the drinking age to ~28 (the first year in which traffic accidents aren't the leading cause of death) or else step up law enforcement for all ages. It was easier to pass a law (especially when the feds threatened access to highway funds) that mount a broad campaign against DWI.
[/q]

I think I just saw the word "great" and "Wizard of Id" used in the same sentence. Wait...I just read a "Wizard of Id" reference. *goes drinking*

(oh, and JTW: nobody ever in the history of adolescence has entered a bar and consumed alcohol when under-age. Not today, and certainly not in the 1980s. So your questioning of the validity of a program on the fine Fox network is completely acceptable to me.) nut

Points to anyone making a "Marmaduke," "Ziggy," or "Family Circus" reference. How about some classic "Heathcliff," Bill?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2005 09:58PM by RichH.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Jacob 03 (---.carlsl01.pa.comcast.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 11:00PM

[Q]RichH Wrote:

[I think I just saw the word "great" and "Wizard of Id" used in the same sentence. Wait...I just read a "Wizard of Id" reference. *goes drinking*
Points to anyone making a "Marmaduke," "Ziggy," or "Family Circus" reference. How about some classic "Heathcliff," Bill?
[/q]

how dare you mock such cutting edge comic strips, hovorka! i don't even know if an issue's important until an aryan father figure explains it to his angelic child in a family circus cartoon, preferably with a tenuous analogy featuring a pet. of course, i'm pretty sure i stole than whole sentence from a "ziggy" anyway....

of course, my undergrad housemates thought mr. gnu utter genius, so there's no accounting for taste.


[phil's corner was superior]

[still don't get the living end]
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: cornelldavy (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 11:21PM



 
___________________________
Alex F. '03 * [www.uclahockey.org]
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: French Rage (---.washdc.dsl-w.verizon.net)
Date: September 23, 2005 11:38PM

Mr. Gnu was years ahead of its time dammit. C'mon, a bat with tits.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.bos.east.verizon.net)
Date: September 24, 2005 01:31AM

[Q]French Rage Wrote:

Mr. Gnu was years ahead of its time dammit. C'mon, a bat with tits.[/q]

When did 'ahead of it's time' change it's meaning to 'immature and stupid'???? :-P :-P :-P nut
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Beeeej (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: September 24, 2005 10:44AM

Now, if you want "immature and stupid" and "ahead of its time," there's no substitute for Goats.com...

...and it's written by a Cornellian with an appreciation for fine Hot Truck comestibles.

[goats.com]

Beeeej

 
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.

"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Scott Kominkiewicz (---.nwrk.east.verizon.net)
Date: September 24, 2005 10:55AM

> During my freshman year on 1/1/85 New York raised the drinking age to 19 (just one day before I turned 18). However, they grandfathered in everyone that had turned 18 the previous year (most of my friends). <

Sorry Ericho, but I don't think that's right. I graduated in May 1984, and I remember being a 20-year-old junior sitting in The Connection on College Ave. when Jerry the owner went table to table to check everyone's ID at about 10 or 11 p.m. The reason was that the drinking age was to turn to 19 at midnight, and 18 year olds were not going to be grandfathered. My recollection seems to dovetail with Fenwick's estimation that the 18-19 jump occured in December 1982 (I was 20 then, and I was a junior then, and I was in bars often then). The 18-19 increase did little to curb excesses on campus.

 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: September 25, 2005 12:45AM

[Q]jtwcornell91 Wrote:

I know it was raised from 18 to 19, and then to 21 ... Does anybody have concrete or personal confirmation of when the laws were changed? (I know they didn't grandfather them in, and I believe some people were 18 when the age was raised to 19 and 19 or 20 when it was raised to 21.) [/q]

Well, Eric and Scott have already weighted in, but my friend Matt was high school class of '84 and he was one of the poor souls they kept changing it on. He couldn't drink at 17, could drink at 18, maybe got grandfathered for the change to 19?, then couldn't drink when it changed to 21, and then finally could drink at 21.

When I talk to him next, I'll ask about the grandfathering.

 
___________________________
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Work is no longer an excuse to live near an ECACHL team... :(

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2005 12:55AM by jeh25.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: andy (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: September 25, 2005 02:36AM

Loud Guy: New york state alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!!
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Trotsky (---.frdrmd.adelphia.net)
Date: September 25, 2005 12:51PM

[Q]ericho_4511 Wrote:
they would raise the drinking age to 30.[/q]
IIRC, there's a Philip K. Dick novel in which that's the case.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Beeeej (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: September 25, 2005 01:24PM

I think you could say that about most things.

"Man, I got so drunk the other night - I woke up yesterday morning in the Topeka, Kansas school board meeting room with my pants down around my ankles, a copy of Darwin's The Origin of Species up my ass, Marvin Gaye playing on the stereo, and empty juice boxes scattered everywhere."
"Dude, wasn't that in a Philip K. Dick novel?"

Beeeej

 
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.

"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: September 26, 2005 03:02PM

Middlebury president John McCardell opined last October (once he had safely retired to South Carolina) that one of the biggest mistakes of his tenure was not speaking out against the 21-year-drinking age that was "bad policy and bad law" and probably promoted binge drinking.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: September 26, 2005 04:40PM

[Q]andy Wrote:

Loud Guy: Pennsylvania alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!![/q]

Fixed your post.

You can't even buy a beer in a grocery store in this state. They just passed a law to allow you to buy a case of beer on a Sunday, but only during limited hours, and only from a "beer distributor".

And the state still runs the liquor stores and limits who and what you can buy.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: September 26, 2005 05:40PM

As strange as it still seems to see hard liquor in a supermarket (in CA), esp. when it's in the same aisle as things like milk and eggs, the inherent deregulation has got to be good for consumers. I have no problem believing that the folks who originally set up laws like the one Jeff describes were well meaning based on their moral codes. But human nature being what it is, this type of regulatory scheme ends up doing little more than enriching particular players at the expense of the average citizen.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Tub(a) (---.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
Date: September 26, 2005 05:49PM

[Q]Jeff Hopkins '82 Wrote:

andy Wrote:

Loud Guy: Pennsylvania alcohol laws...

Everyone in crowd: SUCK!![/Q]
Fixed your post.

You can't even buy a beer in a grocery store in this state. They just passed a law to allow you to buy a case of beer on a Sunday, but only during limited hours, and only from a "beer distributor".

And the state still runs the liquor stores and limits who and what you can buy.
[/q]

Beer in bars is significantly cheaper here. It's no great chore to find drafts of Yeungling for a dollar a piece, which is good.
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: September 27, 2005 08:14AM

For those who aren't familiar with the stupidity, Pennsylvania's archaic beer laws:

- You can buy single bottles or cans in a bar or restaurant, but you must drink them there. No take out.
- You can only buy a six-pack in a bar or restaurant, but you must take them out. You can't drink them there. There a limit of two six-packs.
- You can only buy a case of beer at a beer distributor, but you can't buy smaller packages there. However, you're not allowed to put it in your own car. The salesman must do that.

All wine and liquor is sold by the state in a very limited number of stores. The selection is horrendously limited except for a few stores in the larger cities, where the selection improves to merely awful. We have one state designated "specialty store" with for the entire Lehigh Valley - a population center of over 350,000 people. The state will order cases of wine for you that are not on the regular sales list provided they have a sales agreement with the winery. However, the prices are quite inflated and the state does this at a very large profit.

The real story here is that the Liquor Store workers have a very powerful, rich union, and any time that a politician talks about privatization, the lobbying money comes out, the advertisements about "We're protecting your children" start, and the issue goes away.

 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (---.rgv.res.rr.com)
Date: September 27, 2005 09:16AM

And yet Pennsylvania has only the second screwiest set of liquor laws in the country. (To any non-Mormon who's lived in Utah, the number 3.2 has a "special" meaning.)


 
___________________________
JTW

@jtwcornell91@hostux.social
 
Re: [OT] New York State alcohol laws
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: September 27, 2005 12:40PM

Yeah, at least we never had 3.2 beer during my lifetime.

I lived in W. Virginia just after they switched from 3.2 beer sold only in ABC stores to regular beer and malt liquor sold in the local mini mart or gas station. There was only a slight rolleyes increase in the rate of DWI for the next year or two.
 

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