Hockey at Fenway?

Being a Red Sox fan who loves college hockey, I'm practically drooling at this idea. As long as they don't do it on the same night as the Cornell-Harvard game...

[www.boston.com]

Awesome! I'd be there

Maybe they could hold the Cornell-Harvard game at Fenway, and then we can say that Fenway is our house.

[Q]Will Wrote:

Maybe they could hold the Cornell-Harvard game at Fenway, and then we can say that Fenway is our house.[/q]

Remember that we'd have to win the game for that to happen. I recall entering Lynah East but leaving Bright Arena this past January.

Kyle

[Q]Will Wrote:
Maybe they could hold the Cornell-Harvard game at Fenway, and then we can say that Fenway is our house.[/q]Anything held at Fenway becomes an event, which attracts more Boston locals, which makes it a lot less likely for us to be able to take it over a la Bright.

Also I don't like Fenway, so I'd just as soon not do that.

When Boston is a septic, self-absorbed, smoldering ruin (even more than already), if there's any further justice the only structure that survives within a 200 mile radius, now that the Gahden is gone, will be Fenway. We can move it, rusting I-beam by crumbling brick, to someplace with a human population.

Hate the city. Detest the people. But that is THE ballpark. Only Wrigley is close.

[Q]Trotsky Wrote:
Detest the people.[/q]
Thanks

Other than the negative stuff, I agree with your post

[Q]Trotsky Wrote: When Boston is a septic, self-absorbed, smoldering ruin (even more than already), if there's any further justice the only structure that survives within a 200 mile radius, now that the Gahden is gone, will be Fenway. We can move it, rusting I-beam by crumbling brick, to someplace with a human population.

Hate the city. Detest the people. But that is THE ballpark. Only Wrigley is close.[/q]Wow, it's the best "college city" that I know of. Easy to get around with public transportation, relatively inexpensive to visit, great seafood at good prices, good museums, close to great skiing, easy to see great college hockey, wonderful areas to just walk or jog, and did I mention that it's a great "college city"? Sorry, but what's not to like if you are visiting.

The problem with living there is that like most cities, if you want to raise a family you need to be rich to live close in, or be satisfied with less a home than you can get elsewhere, or live away and therefore not take advantage of all it has to offer.

October in Michigan is one thing, but Boston in December? That could be one nasty game. Too bad they don't want Cornell involved.

[Q]Jim Hyla Wrote: Sorry, but what's not to like if you are visiting. [/q]

The Green Line, subways that stop running at 00:30, no subway-to-bus transfers, having to change lines twice to get from Harvard/MIT to the airport, bars that throw you out instead of giving you drinking-up time, bars that don't take out-of-state IDs from people under 25 ...

Josh, care to add to the list?

I recall a survey from the 1990s (Money magazine?) that says Boston is the most expensive city to live a decent middle class life while New York is the most expensive city for living an upper class life. Ie in Boston you need to park and insure a car ($$$) while in New York you'd use a car service and your kids would be in private schools.

The Boston Globe is reporting that this will happen this December, possibly as a doubleheader:

[www.boston.com]

Opponents are still being sought. No one wants to see Michigan or Michigan State here in Boston. Harvard-Cornell, BU-BC - now that would be a fun doubleheader.

[q]The Green Line, subways that stop running at 00:30, no subway-to-bus transfers, having to change lines twice to get from Harvard/MIT to the airport, bars that throw you out instead of giving you drinking-up time, bars that don't take out-of-state IDs from people under 25 ...[/q]

I wish more young homeowners-to-be shared this sentiment. As it is, everyone and their sister wants to live in the city, near these same bars and T stops, elevating property values to absurd levels all along Comm Ave (BU), in Chestnut Hill (BC), and near Cambridge.

Oh, and Fenway is not a bad place to visit when it's not overrun by Sox nuts. I would be first in line for the hockey game(s) there. As a warm weather facility, though, I wonder if the plumbing/utilities/seating can handle it. Wouldn't want them to find out on game day that toilets don't work!

jtwcornell91
The Green Line, subways that stop running at 00:30, no subway-to-bus transfers, having to change lines twice to get from Harvard/MIT to the airport, bars that throw you out instead of giving you drinking-up time, bars that don't take out-of-state IDs from people under 25 ...

...ridiculously inadequate road capacity, high hotel prices even in the 'burbs, inability to buy beer anywhere but liquor stores that close at 9pm, hard-to-understand parking rules around street cleaning (which are designed to extract revenue, not clear the roads), craptacular night life, and Logan.

Logan deserves a section all of its own: (1) one of the worst on-time records in the country. (2) If you are unlucky enough to fly American, you'll end up in the terminal without any food beyond the security checkpoint. (3) No cheap short-term parking for picking up. (4) Roadways through Logan are a labyrinth.

Oh, and Harvard.

Kyle

krose
Oh, and Harvard.

You left out the Kennedys.

nyc94
You left out the Kennedys.

Trust me, I thought about it... but the Kennedys don't really have all that much impact on visitors, unless you're a hot babe who finds herself solicited by a senior senator with a bottle of Jack in one hand and a stick shift in the other, near any waterway in the Commonwealth. Then you might have something to worry about.

Kyle

krose
Trust me, I thought about it... but the Kennedys don't really have all that much impact on visitors, unless you're a hot babe who finds herself solicited by a senior senator with a bottle of Jack in one hand and a stick shift in the other, near any waterway in the Commonwealth. Then you might have something to worry about.

Back in the 90s one of the Boston radio stations (WFNX, WAAF?) used to run a guide for new freshman and the last was a warning if "Ted offers you a ride home, take a cab."

krose

jtwcornell91
The Green Line, subways that stop running at 00:30, no subway-to-bus transfers, having to change lines twice to get from Harvard/MIT to the airport, bars that throw you out instead of giving you drinking-up time, bars that don't take out-of-state IDs from people under 25 ...

...ridiculously inadequate road capacity, high hotel prices even in the 'burbs, inability to buy beer anywhere but liquor stores that close at 9pm, hard-to-understand parking rules around street cleaning (which are designed to extract revenue, not clear the roads), craptacular night life, and Logan.

Logan deserves a section all of its own: (1) one of the worst on-time records in the country. (2) If you are unlucky enough to fly American, you'll end up in the terminal without any food beyond the security checkpoint. (3) No cheap short-term parking for picking up. (4) Roadways through Logan are a labyrinth.

Oh, and Harvard.

Kyle

Its called character


Like if I want to get somewhere in NYC, what do I do? I go down X blocks and over Y avenues... Pfffff, what kinda lame ass wussy joke is that? (South of 14th St excluded, of course). In Boston, ya gotta work for it. And if you get trapped in the North, excuse me... Nahth, End... and die of starvation before you find a one way street that actually heads out, after running out of money buying $50 italian dinners... well, that's called survival of the fittest.

- Fred

Don't like the team, but love the ballpark. I really can't decide between Wrigley and Fenway. But they're easily at the top of the list.

Winnabago
Oh, and Fenway is not a bad place to visit when it's not overrun by Sox nuts. I would be first in line for the hockey game(s) there.

You know all those BU and BC fans who will show up for hockey games there? What baseball team you think they root for?

krose

jtwcornell91
The Green Line, subways that stop running at 00:30, no subway-to-bus transfers, having to change lines twice to get from Harvard/MIT to the airport, bars that throw you out instead of giving you drinking-up time, bars that don't take out-of-state IDs from people under 25 ...

...ridiculously inadequate road capacity, high hotel prices even in the 'burbs, inability to buy beer anywhere but liquor stores that close at 9pm, hard-to-understand parking rules around street cleaning (which are designed to extract revenue, not clear the roads), craptacular night life, and Logan.

Logan deserves a section all of its own: (1) one of the worst on-time records in the country. (2) If you are unlucky enough to fly American, you'll end up in the terminal without any food beyond the security checkpoint. (3) No cheap short-term parking for picking up. (4) Roadways through Logan are a labyrinth.

Oh, and Harvard.

Kyle

You guys have it all wrong.

-You can gut subway to bus transfers, depending on the station.
-You can take the new Silver line from South Station (red line) directly to the airport.
-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it).
-Liquor stores are open at least until 11:00 and are open on Sundays. The liquor laws in Massachusetts allow for stores called "package stores," which are usually much more classy than running to your local gas station in other jursidictions which usually carry only beer and wine.
-The largest construction job in history is nearing completion adding much needed road capacity and easier travel (in addition to several acres of parks).
-Logan airport is undergoing some important renovations including the addition of a new terminal, more retail and restaurant space, more parking, newer roads and traffic patterns, etc.
-The Garden is back thanks to the good folks at TD Banknorth.
-Harvard is mostly in Cambridge.

The only people that complain about Boston are those that haven't left Oregon in years, you know who you are.

Facetimer
The only people that complain about Boston are those that haven't left Oregon in years, you know who you are.

I live in Boston, jackass. Have for 7-1/2 very long years.

Let me refute your points one by one:

-You can gut subway to bus transfers, depending on the station. *** Who wants to ride the bus?

-You can take the new Silver line from South Station (red line) directly to the airport. *** I repeat: who wants to ride the bus?

-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

-Liquor stores are open at least until 11:00 and are open on Sundays. The liquor laws in Massachusetts allow for stores called "package stores," which are usually much more classy than running to your local gas station in other jursidictions which usually carry only beer and wine. *** Why shouldn't I be able to buy beer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Or liquor or wine, for that matter? Blue laws suck.

-The largest construction job in history is nearing completion adding much needed road capacity and easier travel (in addition to several acres of parks). *** The statistic I saw is that the new tunnel takes approximately 5 minutes away from a 35 minute commute. Yeah, that was worth $17 billion dollars (and counting, due to the phenomenal leakage and graft).

-Logan airport is undergoing some important renovations including the addition of a new terminal, more retail and restaurant space, more parking, newer roads and traffic patterns, etc. *** And it still has one of the worst on-time records of any airport in the country.

-The Garden is back thanks to the good folks at TD Banknorth. *** Huh?? What's changed from when it was called the Fleetcenter? Not that the (real) Garden was a great place to watch hockey, but it certainly was a great place to *experience* hockey.

-Harvard is mostly in Cambridge. *** Ok, I give on this one. But it's slowly encroaching on Allston. Surely you know that the athletic facilities and the B-school are on that side, right?

Cheers,
Kyle

krose

Facetimer
The only people that complain about Boston are those that haven't left Oregon in years, you know who you are.

I live in Boston, jackass. Have for 7-1/2 very long years.

Let me refute your points one by one:

-You can gut subway to bus transfers, depending on the station. *** Who wants to ride the bus?

-You can take the new Silver line from South Station (red line) directly to the airport. *** I repeat: who wants to ride the bus?

-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

-Liquor stores are open at least until 11:00 and are open on Sundays. The liquor laws in Massachusetts allow for stores called "package stores," which are usually much more classy than running to your local gas station in other jursidictions which usually carry only beer and wine. *** Why shouldn't I be able to buy beer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Or liquor or wine, for that matter? Blue laws suck.

-The largest construction job in history is nearing completion adding much needed road capacity and easier travel (in addition to several acres of parks). *** The statistic I saw is that the new tunnel takes approximately 5 minutes away from a 35 minute commute. Yeah, that was worth $17 billion dollars (and counting, due to the phenomenal leakage and graft).

-Logan airport is undergoing some important renovations including the addition of a new terminal, more retail and restaurant space, more parking, newer roads and traffic patterns, etc. *** And it still has one of the worst on-time records of any airport in the country.

-The Garden is back thanks to the good folks at TD Banknorth. *** Huh?? What's changed from when it was called the Fleetcenter? Not that the (real) Garden was a great place to watch hockey, but it certainly was a great place to *experience* hockey.

-Harvard is mostly in Cambridge. *** Ok, I give on this one. But it's slowly encroaching on Allston. Surely you know that the athletic facilities and the B-school are on that side, right?

Cheers,
Kyle

I think I forgot to mention the beligerant Irishmen.

krose

Facetimer
The only people that complain about Boston are those that haven't left Oregon in years, you know who you are.

I live in Boston, jackass. Have for 7-1/2 very long years.

I believe he was trying to get in a dig at someone who actually moved to Virginia a couple of years ago.

[q]The statistic I saw is that the new tunnel takes approximately 5 minutes away from a 35 minute commute. Yeah, that was worth $17 billion dollars (and counting, due to the phenomenal leakage and graft).[/q]As if the Big Dig was ever about improving commute times...

KeithK
As if the Big Dig was ever about improving commute times...

Not to start a political flamefest but anyone else think it odd that one of the bluest of the blue states spent $17 billion on a highway?

jmh30

Winnabago
Oh, and Fenway is not a bad place to visit when it's not overrun by Sox nuts. I would be first in line for the hockey game(s) there.

You know all those BU and BC fans who will show up for hockey games there? What baseball team you think they root for?

I trust BU fans can make the 5 minute walk from Agganis, but BC? Come on, that's far. And, no, I'm not going to be wearing a Jeter jersey.

Seriously though, the crowd for a BU-BC game could be large and plenty rowdy, but face it, Harvard-Cornell couldn't fill 36k. Or even half that if you only count seats with decent proximity to a rectange in the outfield. I'm also just assuming that the Bright Handful wouldn't be attending, unless they offer a carpool of Priuses over.

The concept is a great idea, as long as Northleastern doesn't get involved. I would love to see how they handled the ice surface in a baseball-oriented park.

nyc94
Not to start a political flamefest but anyone else think it odd that one of the bluest of the blue states spent $17 billion on a highway?

The vast majority of that money came from out of state. So I guess they technically did spend it, but it's very blue state-ish to spend other peoples' money, given how much easier it is than spending one's own.

So, congratulations! You helped shave 5 minutes off some peoples' commutes, and subsidized a massive wealth transfer to the owners of buildings in the North End and to the politically well-connected tycoons responsible for the impending commericial complexes that will inevitably take priority over the green space that was originally planned.

Cheers,
Kyle

krose
So, congratulations! You helped shave 5 minutes off some peoples' commutes, and subsidized a massive wealth transfer to the owners of buildings in the North End and to the politically well-connected tycoons responsible for the impending commericial complexes that will inevitably take priority over the green space that was originally planned.

Cheers,
Kyle

I disagree with your 5 minute comment. I used to commute from the North -- do you remember the god awful merge of Route 1 from the Tobin Bridge and Route 93. After the merge there was gridlock all the way through to Dorchester. Now during rush hour there is no merging traffic and no traffic in the artery. Where they screwed up is just before the double decker where the lanes go from 4 to 2 (losing one to the HOV lane and one for some reason just disappears right after the Sullivan Square exit). Once you get passed that bottle neck, I find the change welcomed. Going to the airport from 93 has improved as you don't need to get off at Haymarket and the exits are east to make in the tunnel.

As for the development of the greenway, etc. I work at 28 State Street and we have an unobstructed view of the parks they are building between the Garden and Long Wharf (by the Marriot). You can't see the progress from the street because of the fences, but from a birds eye view, it is almost to the point that all they need to do is the landscaping and they are done. It was quite an impressive transformation from what it used to be. Comparing private to public development is like comparing apples to oranges. Besides the owners of those properties in the North End have had to live with the ugly green elevated highway pre-Big Dig. They deserve the increased property values as they took the risk of purchasing the less than ideal property.

I just wish everyone stopped complaining for the sake of complaining and realized the vast improvement the new layout is (including the Ted Williams Tunnel, Rose Kennedy Greenway, new loop ramp from the Tobin Bridge, etc.)

krose
it's very blue state-ish to spend other peoples' money, given how much easier it is than spending one's own.

Considering that the blue states are a net positive and the red states are a net negative when considering federal revenue vs federal expenditure, and thus that the blue states are subsidizing the red states, you don't want to make those kinds of asinine statements.

Please observe the non-political nature of the board and keep the comments to hockey, where you might know something.

Trotsky

krose
it's very blue state-ish to spend other peoples' money, given how much easier it is than spending one's own.

Considering that the blue states are a net positive and the red states are a net negative when considering federal revenue vs federal expenditure, and thus that the blue states are subsidizing the red states, you don't want to make those kinds of asinine statements.

Did I say anything about where the money was coming from? There's no honor among thieves, implying that the blue states aren't above trying to extract money from other blue states.

Please observe the non-political nature of the board and keep the comments to hockey, where you might know something.

Sure, as long as it's mutual. I'll be on the lookout.

Cheers,
Kyle

I hate to say it, but I agree with Facetimer

Boston driving will never be great, heck, it'll never be good... you're dealing with a decent sized city, tightly packed, with a limited public transportation system and 50 story buildings with one-way cowpaths in between them. Whaddaya want?

The Big Dig is a massive improvement over what was (albeit, granted, at a massive cost) - both roadwise and even more so aesthetically.


Boston's main problem is lack of public transportation (well, that and the aforemenioned one way cowpaths). To make it convenient it would need something much more like the coverage of the NY subway. The T is very spread out and there are plenty of places in town where just aren't anywhere near a station. Moreso, you shouldn't have to go downtown to get from Harvard Square to the BU area. And it shouldn't take an hour. There should be a Green 'A' line that goes across the BU bridge to Harvard Square.

But there's simply no where to put any of it, so it is what it is.


And yes, blue laws suck. But you're gonna get that just about anywhere in New England, so deal

The point is that nothing ruins a public forum faster than interjections of politics or religion. This is in fact the only forum I've seen where the posters just don't go there, and I'd hate to see it end.

So yes, mutual, of course. There are a million other places for political screeds.

Trotsky

krose
it's very blue state-ish to spend other peoples' money, given how much easier it is than spending one's own.

Considering that the blue states are a net positive and the red states are a net negative when considering federal revenue vs federal expenditure, and thus that the blue states are subsidizing the red states, you don't want to make those kinds of asinine statements.

Please observe the non-political nature of the board and keep the comments to hockey, where you might know something.

I don't see what your comment has to do with what I asked. I simply suggested that those in the blue states would be less inclined to spend massive amounts on a highway project since it is generally accepted that more roads lead to more driving. More driving leads to more dependence on oil and leads to more pollution. If Massachusetts had spent $17 billion on a mass transit project I wouldn't have brought it up.

pretty funny. People like to dump on NYC but it has far fewer logistical issues than Boston.

I always enjoy visiting Boston but it's not reasonably inexpensive to visit as mentioned earlier. On the contrary it's always near the top of the list of expensive major cities for business travel along with DC and New York.

Considering all of the variables involved (not the least of which being that Fenway was not designed for hockey), I don't know why they don't just play BC-BU there to start instead of trying to organize the doubleheader involving teams from out west. Oh wait, I know why - because the current Red Sox ownership loves to make headlines and slap their brand name all over the news. Good times.

Anyway, despite the personal attacks on my hometown and me and my admittedly annoying city-mates on this thread, I still think it's a terrific idea, and I plan on doing whatever it takes to get tickets.

And I can't imagine Harvard or Northeastern being involved. They just don't draw enough, and besides, Harvard sucks.

nyc94
I don't see what your comment has to do with what I asked. I simply suggested that those in the blue states would be less inclined to spend massive amounts on a highway project since it is generally accepted that more roads lead to more driving. More driving leads to more dependence on oil and leads to more pollution. If Massachusetts had spent $17 billion on a mass transit project I wouldn't have brought it up.

Continuing off-topic, reduced congestion might reduce overall pollution by making the amount of gas burned go further. Or it might encourage additional driving. It's hard to say. Keep in mind that the project was initiated something like 20 years ago.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Big Dig improves Boston. The question is simply whether it was worth the cost, especially coming out of federal coffers. But the project really shouldn't be viewed from a left/right perspective. It's simply a matter of a powerful politician (Tip O'Neill, long time Speaker of the House) getting funding for projects in his district.

krose

-Liquor stores are open at least until 11:00 and are open on Sundays. The liquor laws in Massachusetts allow for stores called "package stores," which are usually much more classy than running to your local gas station in other jursidictions which usually carry only beer and wine. *** Why shouldn't I be able to buy beer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Or liquor or wine, for that matter? Blue laws suck.

Kyle,
Massachusetts blue laws are awesome compared to Connecticut's. My brother and I regularly look at the clock that reads 7:45 pm, swear, and speed to the package store so we can grab enough beer for the group of undetermined size that'll be partying that night. Everywhere I've lived since, I think it's amazing that I can buy alcohol (closer to) whenever I want.

DeltaOne81
And yes, blue laws suck. But you're gonna get that just about anywhere in New England, so deal

Well, yeah, because New England sucks.

Liz '05
Massachusetts blue laws are awesome compared to Connecticut's.

Doesn't make it any less dumb.

IMO, the state has no business telling me when or where I can buy or sell alcohol. I admit the Constitution clearly disagrees, but in response to that, see my first statement.

Cheers,
Kyle

LOL, now we have two threads talking about the Constitution. Carry on...

Trotsky
LOL, now we have two threads talking about the Constitution. Carry on...

I apologize. This crap follows me wherever I go. I shall make an effort not to mention the Constitution for at least a few days, starting... now.

Kyle

All we need is for one more fan to get thrown out for exercising his "right of free speech," and we'll have a third.

Beeeej

krose

Liz '05
Massachusetts blue laws are awesome compared to Connecticut's.

Doesn't make it any less dumb.

IMO, the state has no business telling me when or where I can buy or sell alcohol. I admit the Constitution clearly disagrees, but in response to that, see my first statement.

Honestly, if you can't plan a day in advance how much you need to drink, you probably shouldn't be drinking

Like Liz, I grew up in Ct. Just the idea of being able to buy liquor on a Sunday (though I haven't bought alcohol in a while anyway) is a vast improvement to me.

krose

Trotsky
LOL, now we have two threads talking about the Constitution. Carry on...

I apologize. This crap follows me wherever I go. I shall make an effort not to mention the Constitution for at least a few days, starting... now.

Kyle

Kyle, I was actually kidding. I genuinely thought it was funny.

DeltaOne81

krose

Liz '05
Massachusetts blue laws are awesome compared to Connecticut's.

Doesn't make it any less dumb.

IMO, the state has no business telling me when or where I can buy or sell alcohol. I admit the Constitution clearly disagrees, but in response to that, see my first statement.

Honestly, if you can't plan a day in advance how much you need to drink, you probably shouldn't be drinking

Like Liz, I grew up in Ct. Just the idea of being able to buy liquor on a Sunday (though I haven't bought alcohol in a while anyway) is a vast improvement to me.

There are definite perks to living in Orleans Parish. I can stroll to the corner and buy hard liquor at the Rite Aid. Or rather I could if it hadn't been looted with a forklift after Katrina and boarded up.

Are you overlooking Yankee Stadium?

Rich S
Are you overlooking Yankee Stadium?

"Overlooking" implies that it was left out unintentionally. Yankee Stadium is a disgusting hole that can't hold a candle to Wrigley Field. (I feel the same way about Fenway.)

Please clarify. You have the same opionion of Fenway as of Yankee Stadium? Or you believe that Fenway is closer to Wrigley?

Whichever the above, I think your characterization of the Mecca of MLB, which is in the Bronx, is grossly inaccurate. "A disgusting hole"? Isn't that a bit much, regardless of your team affiliation?

Rich S
"A disgusting hole"? Isn't that a bit much, regardless of your team affiliation?

I love Yankee Stadium - and grew up going to games there - but I'd have to agree with jmh30.

ugarte

Rich S
"A disgusting hole"? Isn't that a bit much, regardless of your team affiliation?

I love Yankee Stadium - and grew up going to games there - but I'd have to agree with jmh30.

I agree that Wrigley and Fenway are better ballparks than Yankee Stadium at this point. But if we were talking about the old place - which I've only seen in pictures - then maybe the story would be different. After the renovation the Stadium has too many '70s touches that take away from it. That said, it still beats about 27 or so other ML parks in my mind.

krose

nyc94
Not to start a political flamefest but anyone else think it odd that one of the bluest of the blue states spent $17 billion on a highway?

it's very blue state-ish to spend other peoples' money, given how much easier it is than spending one's own.

Yeah. 'cause the red states certainly refuse billions in federal farm subsidies every year. oh wait...

The 15 states that benefit the most from these farm subsidy formulas would pay only 24% of the cost of commodity programs and receive 74% of the benefits.

Current farm bill proposals would force a multi-billion-dollar annual
redistribution of income from taxpayers in about two-thirds of the states to farms
in less than one-third of the states.

This redistribution would tend to flow geographically from the East coast, West
coast, and Mountain states inward to the Great Plains and Midwest heartland.

...nevermind.

I think your ideological filters cranked up a little high there Kyle.

So, congratulations! You helped shave 5 minutes off some peoples' commutes,

Interesting comment from the same guy that was slamming mass transit in his last post.

So if no one wants to ride mass transit, and highway construction is just an excuse to line cronies pockets, how should we get millions of Americans to work everyday? Hoverboards? Flying DeLoreans?

KeithK

ugarte

Rich S
"A disgusting hole"? Isn't that a bit much, regardless of your team affiliation?

I love Yankee Stadium - and grew up going to games there - but I'd have to agree with jmh30.

I agree that Wrigley and Fenway are better ballparks than Yankee Stadium at this point. But if we were talking about the old place - which I've only seen in pictures - then maybe the story would be different. After the renovation the Stadium has too many '70s touches that take away from it. That said, it still beats about 27 or so other ML parks in my mind.

As nostalgic as I can be at times, the reality is that the renovation after the '73 season was necessary to improve many situations, notably the pillars that created many partial view seats, inadequate concession stands by modern standards, bathrooms, etc.

I would have preferred that they kept the spacious dimensions the same and the monuments in the field of play, but that wasn't the directions stadiums were taking then.

Admittedly, both Fenway and Wrigley still have the old quirks that Yankee Stadium has largely done away with. But if you evaluate just the inside of the structure and the field of play, no ballpark compares with it for the setting and its beauty.

I can't understand anyone referring to Yankee Stadium as a "disgusting hole." You lose all credibilty when you do that, in my opinion.

jeh25
So if no one wants to ride mass transit, and highway construction is just an excuse to line cronies pockets, how should we get millions of Americans to work everyday? Hoverboards? Flying DeLoreans?

Teleportation, clearly.

"It's the 21st century! I was promised flying cars! I don't see any flying cars! Where are they???"

Frankly, I don't like the Yankees, but I have good memories of the stadium when I was a kid not long after the renovation. I also like the setting - it's right near the courthouse and a much more pleasant subway ride than the 7 to Shea. If I ever end up defending cases in the Bronx between April and September, you can bet I'll try to schedule my calendar calls for afternoons right before home games.

(Then again, the firm's Yankee tickets are almost never available to associates... clients snap them up, and even partners often don't get a shot. Not so with Knicks tickets - big surprise.)

Beeeej

Let me refute your refutation one by one (responses marked by a ---)

-You can gut subway to bus transfers, depending on the station. *** Who wants to ride the bus? -You can take the new Silver line from South Station (red line) directly to the airport. *** I repeat: who wants to ride the bus?

--- I do. What's wrong with riding a bus? I get to work in 15 minutes, amazingly its less late on average than the T, its clean, safe, and works just fine. Additionally Boston is one of the top 5 bikeable cities in the US and possibly the most walkable major city in the US. If you're driving then you're getting around the wrong way. Complaining about the city due to your inability to step away from a gas guzzler is dumb. The problem is yours and not the citys.

-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

--- Who cares? Do you lose a rib every time you get carded?

-Liquor stores are open at least until 11:00 and are open on Sundays. The liquor laws in Massachusetts allow for stores called "package stores," which are usually much more classy than running to your local gas station in other jursidictions which usually carry only beer and wine. *** Why shouldn't I be able to buy beer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week? Or liquor or wine, for that matter? Blue laws suck.

--- Agreed. But honestly does it really make that big a difference in the end? I have some beer and wine in my fridge for those late night emergencies.

-The largest construction job in history is nearing completion adding much needed road capacity and easier travel (in addition to several acres of parks). *** The statistic I saw is that the new tunnel takes approximately 5 minutes away from a 35 minute commute. Yeah, that was worth $17 billion dollars (and counting, due to the phenomenal leakage and graft).

--- But more importantly the city is now much more beautiful. Walk around the North end or the aquarium area and watch the incredible skyline.

-Logan airport is undergoing some important renovations including the addition of a new terminal, more retail and restaurant space, more parking, newer roads and traffic patterns, etc. *** And it still has one of the worst on-time records of any airport in the country.

--- Could this possibly be related to the snow? I've lived in Boston/Cambridge for 6 years now and i've been stuck a few times, but all of them have been either snow reasons or stupid airline reasons not directly related to the airport.

-The Garden is back thanks to the good folks at TD Banknorth. *** Huh?? What's changed from when it was called the Fleetcenter? Not that the (real) Garden was a great place to watch hockey, but it certainly was a great place to *experience* hockey.

--- The Garden was crap. I don't see why anyone would want it back.

-Harvard is mostly in Cambridge. *** Ok, I give on this one. But it's slowly encroaching on Allston. Surely you know that the athletic facilities and the B-school are on that side, right?

--- Given that I find Cambridge/Boston to be in effect the same city. I'm going to have to agree with you.


Anyway, I really like this city and after 6 years, want to stay here longer. There's some bad thing in it (Drunk Sox Fans, T closing early, Bars closing early), but the good way outweighs it. Its clean, its low crime, its pretty, its got an awesome dance scene, some quality parks, nature up close, the ocean, good museums...

Felix

I'm sorry. Did you just write "the Garden was crap" and expect anything else in your post to be taken seriously?

I lived within a 15 minute walk of the Garden for 5 years. It was the best place I've even seen a hockey game. Going into it to see a game was always electric -- even watching gaems I didn't care about, like the Beanpot or the Hockey East playoffs. When they tore it down we lost one of the 3 or 4 greatest hockey buildings in the country.

I hate almost everything about Boston -- the obnoxious people, the unattractive women, the grating accent, the laughable parochialism, the pathetic machismo. The only four things I'd save from the city are Fenway, the Isabella Gardner Museum, Matthews Arena, and the Garden. The rest they should just plow into the Charles.

Trotsky
I'm sorry. Did you just write "the Garden was crap" and expect anything else in your post to be taken seriously?

I lived within a 15 minute walk of the Garden for 5 years. It was the best place I've even seen a hockey game. Going into it to see a game was always electric -- even watching gaems I didn't care about, like the Beanpot or the Hockey East playoffs. When they tore it down we lost one of the 3 or 4 greatest hockey buildings in the country.

I hate almost everything about Boston -- the obnoxious people, the unattractive women, the grating accent, the laughable parochialism, the pathetic machismo. The only four things I'd save from the city are Fenway, the Isabella Gardner Museum, Matthews Arena, and the Garden. The rest they should just plow into the Charles.

Pot, meet kettle.

Trotsky
I lived within a 15 minute walk of the Garden for 5 years. It was the best place I've even seen a hockey game. Going into it to see a game was always electric -- even watching gaems I didn't care about, like the Beanpot or the Hockey East playoffs. When they tore it down we lost one of the 3 or 4 greatest hockey buildings in the country

For those oldtimers like me, nothing will ever replace the 5 hour drive to Boston, getting there just in time on a Friday to grab something at McDs, and then feeling our heart rate go up as we walked up the incline to the stadium seats. I'll never be able to replace that feeling regardless of ever winning another NCAA title. There was just too much history of going to the garden every year.

I only hope that you youngers get to have that same feeling about what you are going through. Those memories can carry you through many a boring day.

Well said, Jim. Your note really sums up my love for the old Boston Garden. As I walked up that incline, I always felt that the season had been a success, with or without an ECAC title that weekend. I couldn't help but feeling a certain sadness when we left the Fleet Center after the 1998(?) Frozen Four, knowing that they would begin destruction of the Garden two days later. I'm glad I had a chance to visit that old friend just before its demise.

Jim Hyla
For those oldtimers like me, nothing will ever replace the 5 hour drive to Boston, getting there just in time on a Friday to grab something at McDs, and then feeling our heart rate go up as we walked up the incline to the stadium seats. I'll never be able to replace that feeling regardless of ever winning another NCAA title. There was just too much history of going to the garden every year.

I only hope that you youngers get to have that same feeling about what you are going through. Those memories can carry you through many a boring day.

I'm not nearly as old as Jim, but I agree 100%, and anyone who has done the incline before an exciting game will know what he is talking about. There was something to rushing down Causeway Street (hearing the obnoxious screech of the elevated Green line), cramming 20 wide into 10 turnstyles, rounding the corner onto the incline, getting to the top of the incline where the guy with the loud voice would sell his program, etc. Sure the place was a shithole, there seats were too small, and the ventilation was awful, but there was never a bad seat in the house (unless the balcony obstructed your view) and you were always on top of the action.

Now the Green line is underground, the incline has been replaced with escalators, the seats are more comfortable and they have cupholders. All the new amenities, but you don't get the same sense of excitement Jim had described.

Facetimer
I'm not nearly as old as Jim,

Gee, thanks.

kaelistus
-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

--- Who cares? Do you lose a rib every time you get carded?

The original issue (assuming it hasn't fundamentally changed in the meantime) wasn't about getting carded, it was about a bar not accepting the ID I gave them when I was in Boston for the Harvard game last spring.

RichS
As nostalgic as I can be at times, the reality is that the renovation after the '73 season was necessary to improve many situations, notably the pillars that created many partial view seats, inadequate concession stands by modern standards, bathrooms, etc.

I would have preferred that they kept the spacious dimensions the same and the monuments in the field of play, but that wasn't the directions stadiums were taking then.

Admittedly, both Fenway and Wrigley still have the old quirks that Yankee Stadium has largely done away with. But if you evaluate just the inside of the structure and the field of play, no ballpark compares with it for the setting and its beauty.

I can't understand anyone referring to Yankee Stadium as a "disgusting hole." You lose all credibilty when you do that, in my opinion.

Oh no, I've lost credibility in the eyes of someone with no credibility. I'm crushed.

Jim Hyla
For those oldtimers like me, nothing will ever replace the 5 hour drive to Boston, getting there just in time on a Friday to grab something at McDs, and then feeling our heart rate go up as we walked up the incline to the stadium seats. I'll never be able to replace that feeling regardless of ever winning another NCAA title. There was just too much history of going to the garden every year.

I (and probably others) felt that way about Lake Placid, unfortunately.

jmh30

kaelistus
-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

--- Who cares? Do you lose a rib every time you get carded?

The original issue (assuming it hasn't fundamentally changed in the meantime) wasn't about getting carded, it was about a bar not accepting the ID I gave them when I was in Boston for the Harvard game last spring.

Actually, I forgot that one. I was thinking of the "turn on the lights and clear the building at 1am" practice as opposed to a civilized last call followed by 20+ minutes' drinking up time. You know, in case some bozo decides to order two pitchers of Blue at last call.

jtwcornell91

jmh30

kaelistus
-I've been drinking in town since I was 18 and I've only been thrown out once (I deserved it). *** I am 30 years old this Saturday, and I still get carded about 1/2 the times I go out.

--- Who cares? Do you lose a rib every time you get carded?

The original issue (assuming it hasn't fundamentally changed in the meantime) wasn't about getting carded, it was about a bar not accepting the ID I gave them when I was in Boston for the Harvard game last spring.

Actually, I forgot that one. I was thinking of the "turn on the lights and clear the building at 1am" practice as opposed to a civilized last call followed by 20+ minutes' drinking up time. You know, in case some bozo decides to order two pitchers of Blue at last call.

Yeah, but if we're someplace where we're ordering two pitchers of Blue at last call, we know very well we'll be given ample time to finish it.

And I'll thank you to stop calling Vijay a bozo.

jmh30
I (and probably others) felt that way about Lake Placid, unfortunately.

Lake Placid was another irreplaceable feeling -- a wintry relaxed comraderie, while going to the Gahden was a frenetic, rushed springtime. Lake Placid was hot chocolate; the Gahden was whiskey. Lake Placid was fulfilling, like a Mahler symphony; The Gahden was thrilling, like a Ramones concert.

Trotsky

jmh30
I (and probably others) felt that way about Lake Placid, unfortunately.

Lake Placid was another irreplaceable feeling -- a wintry relaxed comraderie, while going to the Gahden was a frenetic, rushed springtime. Lake Placid was hot chocolate; the Gahden was whiskey. Lake Placid was fulfilling, like a Mahler symphony; The Gahden was thrilling, like a Ramones concert.

So what's Albany? A six-pack of Bud Light? A Britney Spears Top 40 single?

I was being diplomatic.

And, seriously, I hated the idea of Albany, but after a few years (and some very memorable games) it is starting to grow on me. A little. As the history accumulates, it will acquire its own identity.

And for today's wacky kids who have known nothing else, I'll bet it will be every bit as sepia-toned nostalgic as the Gahden is to the oldtimers.

Albany was the site of Cornell 3 - Harvard 2. It doesn't need any more pedigree than that.

Trotsky... You and I clearly have a different vision. Of all the major cities I've been to in the United States, there's no question that to me - Boston stands as the solid #1. (San Fran IMHO is second).

As for Lake Placid vs Albany. Yes Lake Placid had a certain magic to it, but I can't say I'm not happy about being 2-3 hours away instead of 6.

kaelistus
Trotsky... You and I clearly have a different vision. Of all the major cities I've been to in the United States, there's no question that to me - Boston stands as the solid #1. (San Fran IMHO is second).

Hey, I love the history, architecture, geography, and culture of Boston -- I lived there for almost a decade. I just want to deport the population and replace them with human beings.

Anyone calling one of the truly historic and great stadiums in the world "a disgusting hole" should be crushed.

I don't care a bit if I have "no credibility" in your warped eyes.

Rich S
Anyone calling one of the truly historic and great stadiums in the world "a disgusting hole" should be crushed.

I agree that "disguisting hole" is too far - much too far. I hate the Yankees, but have been to Yankee Stadium. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but its your standard modernish-looking, large stadium... with some nice touches, like Monument Park.

But it is nowhere near the visual icon of Fenway or a Wrigely (note I just said visual, Yankee Stadium is definitely a historical icon). You know, the kind of quirkly style they tried to replicate in places like Minute Maid Park, which I won't comment on as I've never been there, but whether you like the new replica of the style or not, the originals are classics.

Yankee Stadium is beautiful. I used to go there to watch the Mariners lose in the '70s. It's St. Peter's Cathedral.

I don't care for the Yankees (who can get a hard-on for the Pentagon?), and I'd far prefer to spend an afternoon amidst Wrigley's or Fenway's charming dilapidation, but The Bronx Bedpan is the most elegant venue in America's most elegant game.

Now if you want a disgusting hole, you need go no further than a few miles east, where my beloved Amazins toil in their aptly-named neighborhood.

Trotsky
Yankee Stadium is beautiful.

I'm a Yankee fan, and even I think the Stadium is a shithole.

Give me Camden Yards any day. Beautiful stadium, and every seat is good. It's like Fenway done right.

Kyle

krose
Give me Camden Yards any day. Beautiful stadium, and every seat is good. It's like Fenway done right.

I agree that Camden Yards is gorgeous. I don't think all seats are great, though. They didn't curve the stands well, so the farther from the plate you sit, the more into the outfield you look without turning in your seat.

That said ... Boog's. (Perhaps not the best 'cue anywhere, but certainly the best in a ballpark.)

I have often told people that if there is baseball in heaven, the stadium is based on Wrigley. Best place to watch an MLB game that I've been to. I sure would have liked to watch from the overhang in Tigers Stadium, though.

ugarte
They didn't curve the stands well, so the farther from the plate you sit, the more into the outfield you look without turning in your seat.

Clearly you haven't experienced the seats beyond the third base line at Fenway, because they face straight ahead, meaning that you need to crane your neck almost 90 degrees to see home plate. It's worst in the corner. By contrast, none of the seats at CY are anywhere near that bad. But, sure, they probably could have done a better job... still, it's a whole lot better than Fenway.

Cheers,
Kyle

<threaddrift>

krose

ugarte
They didn't curve the stands well, so the farther from the plate you sit, the more into the outfield you look without turning in your seat.

Clearly you haven't experienced the seats beyond the third base line at Fenway, because they face straight ahead, meaning that you need to crane your neck almost 90 degrees to see home plate. It's worst in the corner. By contrast, none of the seats at CY are anywhere near that bad. But, sure, they probably could have done a better job... still, it's a whole lot better than Fenway.

In fact I have not been to Fenway. Even if a neck cramp is the cost of watching a game, it is still a high priority. <threaddrift> (Whoops! Forgot to close the tag.)

krose

ugarte
They didn't curve the stands well, so the farther from the plate you sit, the more into the outfield you look without turning in your seat.

Clearly you haven't experienced the seats beyond the third base line at Fenway, because they face straight ahead, meaning that you need to crane your neck almost 90 degrees to see home plate. It's worst in the corner. By contrast, none of the seats at CY are anywhere near that bad. But, sure, they probably could have done a better job... still, it's a whole lot better than Fenway.

The setas in the back right corner in Fenway are awful. Even the ones that face the right way.

But "beyond third base" is a little strong, you have to get decently far out before its much of an issue though. Save yourself some money anyway and sit in the bleachers. Very good few and doesn't feel far out at all.

DeltaOne81
Save yourself some money anyway and sit in the bleachers. Very good few and doesn't feel far out at all.

Unfortunately, the Yankees cap gets more boos (and potentially thrown beers) in the bleachers than it does in the regular sections.

Kyle

Do not sit in the Fenway CF bleachers with a visitors' cap. I've been threatened for wearing a Seattle cap. Not exactly a hot rivalry.

However, if you go incognito, and you can stand the stench and behavior of 750 drunken BU frat boys, the CF bleachers on a Sunday day game are the best6 place to sit in Fenway.

Next is "oh shit corner," which juts out beyond 3B right up to the LF foul line. I sat there for a Baseball Beanpot. Aluminum bats. Closest I ever want to come to playing the hot corner. But it keeps one alert.

Trotsky
Do not sit in the Fenway CF bleachers with a visitors' cap.

Same thing at the shrine in the Bronx. I saw more fights prompted by nothing more than the temerity of coming into the upper deck with an Orioles hat. One guy even threw his own hat over the railing when he heard the whole section exhorting the people on the aisles to "get the hat... get the hat..."

It was a playoff game (the Jeffrey Meier game, actually), but still.

Probably doesn't beat wearing an opposing jersey to a Raiders or Eagles game, however. I dunno about the new football stadium, but the Vet used to have its own lockup, right on site.

Trotsky
Do not sit in the Fenway CF bleachers with a visitors' cap. I've been threatened for wearing a Seattle cap. Not exactly a hot rivalry.

I have, however, sat in the bleachers at Candlestick wearing a Marlins cap and survived. (I think it helped that the Giants crushed the Fish that day.) I also saw a guy wear a Dodgers cap to a SF-LA game. It was a batting helmet.

Trotsky
Do not sit in the Fenway CF bleachers with a visitors' cap.

Well, I did this past September. I got a bunch of boos and a resounding "Yan-kees-suck! Yan-kees-suck!" chant, but since I was in the middle of a bunch of other Akamai people, there weren't any belligerent, drunken Sox fans close enough to me to start any real shit.

Kyle

jtwcornell91
I have, however, sat in the bleachers at Candlestick wearing a Marlins cap and survived. (I think it helped that the Giants crushed the Fish that day.) I also saw a guy wear a Dodgers cap to a SF-LA game. It was a batting helmet.

I went to a Giants-Dodgers game in SF recently with a couple of Dodgers fans. There was a little bit of back and forth, but nothing worth mentioning. Great historic rivalry and all, but Northern California can't hold a candle to anything back east for sports enthusiasm (Raiders fans excluded).

[q]I have often told people that if there is baseball in heaven, the stadium is based on Wrigley. Best place to watch an MLB game that I've been to. I sure would have liked to watch from the overhang in Tigers Stadium, though.[/q]Tiger Stadium is right up there among my favorite places to watch a game (only saw one, but still). Maybe it's because I grew up in NYC/Yankee Stadium but I like the big old yards. That's why I can say that I think I might've put the pre-renovation House That Ruth Built higher than Wrigley or Fenway.

[www.boston.com]

The only statisitic in the article that is believable are the drive times. And I have always wondered how much of the benefit could have been achieved by only building the third harbor tunnel and linking it with I-90 thus keeping airport traffic off of the central artery..

To believe the Big Dig has spurred more development is a reach of White House (any White House) proportions. The construction began in the early 1990s and coincided with a nationwide trend of people and companies moving back to city centers.

such an enlightened view of Boston!

According to NY Newsday, the NHL is looking at NYC for the next installment of this out-of-control gimmick.

[www.newsday.com]
[sports.yahoo.com]

RichH
According to NY Newsday, the NHL is looking at NYC for the next installment of this out-of-control gimmick.

[www.newsday.com]
[sports.yahoo.com]

It's been done how often -- 3 times in 5 years? I'm not sure how that qualifies as "out of control".

It's fun. The fans like it. It sells tickets. As long as the rink is the same size and they play 3 periods of 20 minutes, I see no problem. I hope this happens. I'll be there.

They're asking for trouble. The Islanders can't fill the Coliseum. And I doubt you get that many Rangers fans.

There's a reason the NHL did this in Canada first, and IMO, it isn't the climate.

If you want open-air violence in NYC, just sell tickets for 60-minute time segments in Alphabet City.

Arthur's from NYC. He can do the announcing.

You haven't been to Alphabet City in a while, have you? The most violence I've ever seen over there is a shih tzu getting attacked by a miniature pinscher in the Tompkins Park dog run.

Although I did once run into a co-worker on 5th and B at around 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning. He was wearing leather shorts. Just leather shorts. That was pretty awesome.

Jerseygirl
Although I did once run into a co-worker on 5th and B at around 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning. He was wearing leather shorts. Just leather shorts. That was pretty awesome.

And how exactly is this "never speaking of it again"?!

Beeeej

Jerseygirl
You haven't been to Alphabet City in a while, have you? The most violence I've ever seen over there is a shih tzu getting attacked by a miniature pinscher in the Tompkins Park dog run.

Although I did once run into a co-worker on 5th and B at around 2 a.m. on a Sunday morning. He was wearing leather shorts. Just leather shorts. That was pretty awesome.

A, B, and C may be cutesy from "Rent," but D is still as in "Dead."