Yanks acquire Big Unit; sucks to be a Sox fan right now

Yanks pull off the big one...Red Sox are looking like a one-year wonder a la D'Backs, Angels, and Marlins.

Talk about your OT thread without the "OT:"...

I'm a Yanks fan but the Red Sox won. One-year wonder? I don't think the Red Sox fans would like that moniker but it's better than no-year wonder.

Honestly, you sound like a bitter Red Sox fan...

[Q]faithful07 Wrote:

Yanks pull off the big one...Red Sox are looking like a one-year wonder a la D'Backs, Angels, and Marlins.[/q]

First, this isn't a baseball news board.

2nd, yeah, it sure does suck to be a Sox fan now. I'm sure they all hated winning that world series, and still drenched in champagne and beer. Plus getting to hold it over Yankee fans heads for the next year and beyond. And now they have to buy all the books, magazines, shirts, hats, DVDs... Yeah, it must suck to be a Sox fan.

3rd, christ...you're burying a very well put-together team because of this?? They aren't a one-year wonder (yet). And even if they are, Sox fans don't care. They got their championship. Plus, as they proved this year, they don't have to win the division to have another shot...they (and any other team, including the Yankees) just need to be good enough to win the "best loser" Wild Card, and have the right numbers come up in the ALCS.

4th, the Marlins are a 2-year wonder.

5th, I'm a die-hard Yankee fan, and I'm sorta sad about giving up a Vazquez in his late-20's for a 41-year old. I'm impressed that they did this (if it's true) without having to give up any of the bullpen. Talk of signing a player that old to a contract extension is pretty remarkable, but then again, he won't even be the oldest pitcher in this rivalry.

</end baseball talk from me>

I tried emailing you but fuckoff@fuckoff.com probably wouldn't go through...

[Q]RichH Wrote:

5th, I'm a die-hard Yankee fan, and I'm sorta sad about giving up a Vazquez in his late-20's for a 41-year old.[/q]

I had the misfortune of seeing Vasquez pitch at a losing game at Camden Yards, and he was just awful. I have not been impressed by him in any game I've watched. If he were early-20's and inconsistent, I'd be inclined to keep him around and wait for him to gain experience; but he's late-20's and consistently bad. Buh-bye.

That said, I'm pretty much dead-set against ever signing anyone over 40, including pitchers as solid as Johnson, because biology dictates that their time is nearly over. Still, given the choice between the two, I'd take Johnson any day. Besides, isn't this the last year of Johnson's contract? One year is a reasonable gamble.

Cheers,
Kyle

Apparently the deal requires a two year extension for Johnson to approve it, so it's a 3 year gamble. I suspect that money doesn't matter in the least, though.

I'm dead set against signing anybody over 37, not only because of biology, but because of opportunity cost -- for the (outrageous) money a Johnson costs you, you could be bringing in a couple of younger guys to develop within the organization, who won't then just drop off the shelf. And with a Johnson, the payscale is always chasing his best years, while with a younger guy, it's just the opposite.

Hudson is a thousand times better a pick-up than Johnson.

In a related story, the Yankees announced ticket price increases yesterday.

From AP:

The New York Yankees are raising ticket prices for most of their top seats by $10 next season, with the best box seats going for $90. New York's best regular seats, which include waiter service, are available only as part of season ticket plans.

The price of the top ticket usually available on a per-game basis will rise to $60, from $55. Upper deck reserved seats increase from $15 to $17, and bleacher seats rise from $8 to $10.

[Q]nyc94 Wrote:

The price of the top ticket usually available on a per-game basis will rise to $60, from $55. Upper deck reserved seats increase from $15 to $17, and bleacher seats rise from $8 to $10.[/q]

Still lots cheaper than the Boston Cornhole. Amazing how supply-and-demand works.

Kyle

Was thinking the same thing: that's pretty cheap. (and since you only go to a ballgame for atmosphere, who would waste their money on a $60 box seat?)

Of course, our local Carolina League affiliate sells tickets for $1, and the players actually care.

As a season ticket holder and as big a Yankee fan I know, I'll start by saying, I'm not happy. One, I don't want my upper deck tickets costing me over $40 a game, which is rediculous considering we got them only three years ago at $30. Two, I don't want a 41 year-old, no matter how good he is. He's not as consistent as he used to be. Three, does everybody forget the Vazquez was an allstar last year? The kid had a great first half and melted down in the second half. I think a 28 year old with as much potential as he showed in Montreal and over the first half is not worth giving up on b/c of one half season. Fourth, while I'm not worried about giving up Dioner Navarro, Eric Duncan is going to be a star and should be the Yankees 1B of the future. He was their first round pick two drafts ago and has tremendous power potential. People seem to forget about what won the Yankees their 4 World Series titles: Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Pettitte, Mariano. The home-grown core. Yankee fans who like this deal can't have watched baseball for the past four seasons.

First: Nothing's a done deal and looks like Green doesn't even want to go. (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1947995)

Second: Red Sox are far from a one year wonder, they've still got a good team. Their core (sans Pedro - not a big loss) is still together and they added Renteria...I think that's an upgrade at the shortstop position. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees fail again. There's something to be said about teams that actually play together and compliment each other than a bunch of superstars that just wear the same uniform (look at the Red Sox this year, the Pistons). A team that acts more like a college team in terms of how they relate to each other - as friends, is much more likely to succeed, in my opinion.

Not sure what you mean about "right now". Doesn't it always suck to be a Sox fan?

Still, I do enjoy living in Bost-One-and-Done (or at least reasonably close). Go Pats!

[Q]First, this isn't a baseball news board. [/Q]
Might as well be today

Definitely sucks to be a sox fan right now. That makes sense.....

Take notes if you're going through baseball withdrawal like me:

(for those who only read about the Yanks and Sawx, skip down to the '''''''', but for the rest of you

The Diamondbacks have won a couple divisions in a row, the Angels have topped 90 wins a couple times in the last couple of years too, but the Marlins do get ripped apart right after successful years.

More like, it sucks to be an A's or Dodgers fan - they're also being torn down: the A's have lost two of the best starting pitchers in the game in Mulder and Hudson, with more to come/go, while the Dodgers give up Beltre, Finley, and probably Green, only to pick up Jeff Kent and waste his defensive abilities.

Speaking of Jeff Kent, how about the Mets - the creation in the vacuum that the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers left (the reason the Mets are orange and blue, anyway)? They can't have their cake and eat it too, ever (save '86). They had this superstar Jeff Kent when he was a no-name elsewhere, only to give him up to Giants in San Francisco, where he'd hit grand slams, several 100 RBI seasons, and play some stellar defense and 2nd (peak years, easy). After a stint with the Astros, he ends up going to play for the Los Angeles (if they had them, trolley-) Dodgers. That's just one player; the Mets have a depressing history of giving up anything and everything, most prominently, amazing pitchers who have thrown "plenty" of highly-coveted no-hitters, just not as a Metropolitan: Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Hideo Nomo, Warren Spahn, to name a few. Mets pitchers have come within one out of doing so, but just can't seem to get it done.

"""The Red Sox probably won't have a bad year, they'll finish over .500 surely. They made some good pickups, and had "pretty good" team chemistry last year, that says something about their chances in 2005.

The Yankees, unlike those in Queens, spend their piles of cash powerfully (if not efficiently like the A's for example) and do pick up wins with big'uns like Clemens, perhaps Johnson, and Arnie Boone (sometimes it's better being lucky than good). They don't always throw players to the winds of current popularity: they still have Bernie, Jorge, Derek, Mariano, and just lost Andy.

The truth is that it's much rarer to find franchise players and teams with unwavering reputations nowadays. Back when I was a kid, I though Will Clark would forever be a Giant, Mark McGuire would always be in green and gold (points for whoever can tell me why the A's have an elephant with a bat balancing on a baseball as their logo), and the National League would be the land of pitching and defense (see the Braves, Dodgers, and the 1900 Chicago Cubs - Tinkers to Evers to Chance for another double play).

Almost all of you are Red Sox or Yankees fans, and us little people put up with you because we love baseball more than (read: just as much as) the rest of you. Who else pledges allegiances to other teams?

here ya go

[www.sportsecyclopedia.com]

edit:

Here's the Recap if you don't want to click on the link-

Elephant Logo:
In 1902 John McGraw manger of the New York Giants referred to the [Philadelphia] Athletics as the "White Elephants", implying Mack shouldn't be allowed to spend money without supervision. Mack defiantly adopted the White Elephant as the team insignia, and in 1902, the A's won the American League pennant.

I'm sure you must be talking about White Sox fans, since they haven't won since 1917. As a Red Sox fan, I just ordered 3 DVDs on their championship season. Other than the effect on my wallet, I hardly sucks to be a Red Sox fan. Even if they do tank next year, we were finally able to experience something I thought I might never see in my lifetime. For so many years it was "until next year," well "next year" finally came. Right now I don't care much about 2005.

I think he also meant to refer to them as circus animals (too).

Way aside: John McGraw was born in Truxton, NY, about 30 miles from Ithaca (10 miles east of Cortland). There's a monument to him in the traffic circle in town (there's also at least one stoplight!). I have several relatives who farmed in that area.

[Q]Robb Wrote:

Way aside: John McGraw was born in Truxton, NY, about 30 miles from Ithaca (10 miles east of Cortland). There's a monument to him in the traffic circle in town (there's also at least one stoplight!). I have several relatives who farmed in that area.[/q]Truxton, well known to those of us who ski at Labrador.

Let me tell you first hand... it absolutely does NOT suck to be a Red Sox fan right now. I've been doing this for 27 years, I'm in Boston right now... it's never been better. Take your $16 million, 41-year-old, best left-handed pitcher ever... we don't care. We're still celebrating the championship that your team choked away... we don't have time to worry about the Yankees.

[Q]Ack Wrote:
Speaking of Jeff Kent, how about the Mets - the creation in the vacuum that the NY Giants and Brooklyn Dodgers left (the reason the Mets are orange and blue, anyway)? They can't have their cake and eat it too, ever (save '86). They had this superstar Jeff Kent when he was a no-name elsewhere, only to give him up to Giants in San Francisco, where he'd hit grand slams, several 100 RBI seasons, and play some stellar defense and 2nd (peak years, easy). After a stint with the Astros, he ends up going to play for the Los Angeles (if they had them, trolley-) Dodgers. That's just one player; the Mets have a depressing history of giving up anything and everything, most prominently, amazing pitchers who have thrown "plenty" of highly-coveted no-hitters, just not as a Metropolitan: Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Hideo Nomo, Warren Spahn, to name a few. Mets pitchers have come within one out of doing so, but just can't seem to get it done.[/q]Ugh, don't remind me.

And it's not just all the no-hitters we've traded away or seen depart by free agency (Mike Scott, Dwight Gooden, 1/9th of Octavio Dotel, David Cone, AJ Burnett) or players who pitched no-hitters before coming to the Mets (Al Leiter, Kenny Rogers, and now Pedro Martinez) or players who did both (Nomo)...

The Mets' history, through my Giants-orange-and-Dodger-blue-tinted glasses, is just FULL of has-beens who came to the Mets as big names and left as retirees or castoffs (Richie Ashburn, Duke Snider, Warren Spahn, Willie Mays, George Foster, Willie Randolph, Eddie Murray, Vince Coleman, Bret Saberhagen, Carlos Baerga (aka what we got for Jeff Kent), Rickey Henderson, Orel Hershiser, Mo Vaughn, and, now, Pedro), never-wases who came out of the draft highly regarded and never amounted to anything (Jason Tyner, Terrence Long, Jay Payton, Gregg Jeffries, Billy Beane, or the Mets' first #1 overall, Steve Chilcott, who never even made it to the bigs), or what I think is the Mets' specialty, guys who were nothing when they were with the Mets, then left and became stars (Nolan Ryan, Mike Scott, Kevin Mitchell, Jeff Kent, Jeromy Burnitz, and most recently Melvin Mora and perhaps Scott Kazmir... there are more but I'm getting too annoyed to look at this shit).

And don't even get me started on Bobby fuckin' Bonilla.

Sorry if I sound bitter, but I'm a Mets fan. Life is bitterness.

Don't forget trading Rusty Staub for Mickey Lolitch.

[Q]jmh30 Wrote:

The Mets' history, through my Giants-orange-and-Dodger-blue-tinted glasses, is just FULL of has-beens who came to the Mets as big names and left as retirees or castoffs ... Billy Beane, or the Mets' first #1 overall, Steve Chilcott, who never even made it to the bigs), or what I think is the Mets' specialty, guys who were nothing when they were with the Mets, then left and became stars ...
Sorry if I sound bitter, but I'm a Mets fan. Life is bitterness.[/q]


If the Mets hadn't picked up Billy Beane when he wasn't really ready, the A's wouldn't be winning 90+ games every year now on the lowest payroll there is. Makes the teams with money seem like they're wasting it...until they win a world series, or something minor like that.

Cubs (listen to "A Dying Cubs Fan's Last Request" - genius) and White Sox...Chicago deserves one....

Well at least you had 1969 and 1986. Two title in a 44 year history is actually a bit better than average. It could be worse. You could be a Cubs fan or a White Sox fan. Although no one is happier about baseball than we are right now.

Looks like the trade is now off! It's a great time to be a Yankees fan!

We've had such a good offseason, shipping away Vazquez would kill it.

Phew. Thank God, or the Dodgers.

Peace on earth, good will toward men (and too bad about Johnson not going to New York). At least Sox fans and Yankees fans have things in common, probably respect for Joe Torre's abilities, perhaps a desire to see pictures in Esquire of whoever Derek Jeter is currently dating, and certainly the common level of esteem we have for George Steinbrenner. I really could see George Costanza working in that office and fitting right in.

[Q]faithful07 Wrote:

Yanks pull off the big one...Red Sox are looking like a one-year wonder a la D'Backs, Angels, and Marlins.[/q]
Man, must suck to be wrong, AND a jackass, huh?

Marlins one year wonders? Yeah, winning a title 7 years into your existance (if that?) and then another one 6 years later. Such a horrible state of affairs, they must just hate it down there.

Man, just goes to show the absolute Yankee obliviousness to how things actually work. The Marlins are probably the second or third or fourth most successful team in the last decade or so. Winning a title and then not for a while? Guess what, that's how it *supposed* to work - when you don't have 10 times the payroll to work with. Like the billionaire in town saying "man, those upper-middle class fools, can't even afford more than one yacht! Sucks to be them!" - yeah, he's a lovely person. Trust me, everyone else in the world who wasn't born into a multi-million dollar trust fund is pretty damn happy if they can get a single yacht.

On average, every team will win a title once every 30 years - on AVERAGE. If you win once every generation or so, you are perfectly average, not even in the lower portion of the spectrum. The 'birth right' bull is revolting.

All that said, the Unit will probably still end up with the Yankees, because they're the only team that can afford him without blinking an eye - hell, they could pay him 3 times as much as still not blink an eye - but he's 41 - and has got to be hitting his end within a few years. Considering the Yankees are now cursed, that may not be enough

[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
On average, every team will win a title once every 30 years - on AVERAGE. If you win once every generation or so, you are perfectly average, not even in the lower portion of the spectrum.[/Q]

Well, there have only been 30 teams for 7 seasons now...for 60 years (1901-1960) there were only 16 teams in MLB. And teams like the Cubs, White Sox, and Indians have gone a long time since their last championship, but at least they all have more than one in their history...as does every other existing team that played during that span...except the Phillies, who have won only one championship (1980) and five pennants in 122 years of existence.

Also consider that the Eagles haven't won a championship since 1960, the Flyers haven't won a championship since 1975, and the Sixers haven't won a championship since 1983, and you have 84 combined seasons without a championship in any sport. No wonder Philly sports fans are so bitter. (Don't bring up T.O., either.)

[Q]atb9 Wrote:

Looks like the trade is now off! It's a great time to be a Yankees fan!

[/q]
I hear Sandy Koufax is available.

whoa, easy big fella...you need to switch to decaf!

Faithful07, this goes out to you!



[sports.espn.go.com]

I hope to see the Big Unit pitch for the Yankees (ticket prices went up again ) but I'm really going to miss Vazquez.

So, does it suck to be a Sox fan now?

I'd imagine not, considering they are World Champions.

It sucks to be a sucks fan

[Q]Jordan 04 Wrote:

I'd imagine not, considering they are World Champions.[/q]
Right.

In fact, it's quite terrific. Especially now, watching the Yankees act like fools trying to catch up. Couldn't be better, actually. Well, on second thought it probably could--if the Yanks had taken the bait on Pedro.

Tough to be a Sox fan? Sox fans have low expectations. Actually high-level low expectations, meaning we ask only that our hearts be broken in dramatic fashion, for instance by a ground ball going through Bill Buckner's legs ... not by finishing 24-1/2 games out. So in a year in which the team became the first ever to come back from a 3-0 playoff deficit and then proceed to roll off eight straight wins, it's hard to be sad.

Plus much as the fans will miss Pedro, there is a belief that his best years are in the rearview mirror. By going to the NL he does the Sox no harm unless the Mets and Sox make the series, and a lot of people suspect Pedro's saving his best pitches for brushbacks. Too bad Pedro couldn't have finished out his career with the Sox, but he wanted to test out the Greater Fool theory.

Just in case anyone didn't realize it, my last statement in this thread was meant to be taken sarcastically. Of course it doesn't suck to be a Sox fan right now. It can't possibly suck to be a Sox fan again until the beginning of the 2005 season. I'm just trying to say that faithful07's statements continue to be moronic, now that Yankees have finally managed to acquire Johnson.

And I just want to reiterate that it sucks to be a sucks fan. So therefore it sucks to be some of the Red Sox fans because they too are sucks fans.