Vermont/Dartmouth Weekend

So who's going to be at these games? I'm planning to make the trip at least for Dartmouth on Saturday and possibly also UVM on Friday. What sections do people have tickets for? Do you think it is safe to get tickets at the gate, or is it necessary to reserve them online/by phone? Hopefully the team will bounce back after the tough outing last weekend with a strong showing.

Myself plus one will be at both games. I'll post where I'll be when I look at the tickets later.

I'll be at both.
Vermont: Section 15, Row E, Seat 9
Dartmouth: Section 3, Row H, Seat 14

We'll be at Dartmouth.

Section 4, Row H.

Okay, where myself plus one are sitting:
Vermont: Section 15, Row B, Seats 7-8
Dartmouth: Section 3, Row E, Seats 10-11

Look for me in the red #19 jersey.

Okay... looks like UVM is a wash for me. My girlfriend and the other people coming with me have to work late today so we wouldn't be able to make it up to Burlington in time. But we'll try to get seats in section 3 or 4 around row H when we get our tickets for Dartmouth. Thanks for the information!

uscho.com picks the New York State teams to sweep this weekend. But the column thinks more of Colgate's offense than Cornell's:


Cornell 3, UVM 2
Colgate 4, Dartmouth 3

Cornell 2, Dartmouth 1
Colgate 3, UVM 1

If Juan Martinez is right, that's going to mess up McKee's GAA average by a couple hundredths.

[www.uscho.com]

(Remember we did this what-if math last year to see if Jim Howard of Maine would break LeNeveau's record...) McKee is at 1.19GAA right now (7GA in 5.886 games or 353:07 playing time). If he gives up this many goals in two 60 minute games, his average becomes

0GA ..... 0.888GAA
1......... 1.015
2 ........ 1.141
3 ........ 1.268
4 ........ 1.395
5 ........ 1.522
6 ........ 1.649
7 ........ 1.775
8......... 1.902

The only stat Jim Howard is competitive in this year (so far) is minutes played. He's No. 2. McKee is #1 in GAA and #3 (tie) for save percentage, 94%. But the year is yet young.

I _may_ be there tomorrow night. Will probably be up in New England this weekend and might make the journey.

Robin '98

I am now definitely planning on being there.

Robin

Since the game thread was deleted before I knew it existed, can someone please post a brief summary of what happened and, because I'm too lazy to go to other sites, what the final score was? I've dedeuced that there were two majors called, one on Moulson, and that we lost or tied, but I need more info. I'm sure there are others like me who are just checking the forum today. Thanks!

[www.uscho.com]
[cornellbigred.collegesports.com]
[www.uvm.edu]

The last time Cornell had a 2 goal lead in the third period and didn't walk away with a win was February 5, 2000, when Cornell tied Brown 2-2 in Providence after giving up two power play goals in the third period. Sound familiar? (Another similarity - Cornell's two goals in that game at Brown were both scored in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd period, the first of which was scored in the first minute).

I'm so bored.

Oh, and the last time we blew a 2 goal lead at ANY point in the game was November 24, 2001, the first of a two game series @ BU. Cornell led 2-0 early in the second period, before BU came back and, eventually, won, 5-3.

Not including (obviously) tomorrow's game between Maine and Providence, here are the results of the top 15 this week...

  1. Boston College:            L, T (Harvard, Providence)
 2. Michigan:                 W, W (Michigan State)
 3. Minnesota:                W, L (Denver)
 4. Wisconsin:                W, W (Alaska-Anchorage)
 5. Colorado College:         W, W (Michigan Tech)
 6. New Hampshire:            W, W, W (Merrimack, Northeastern x2)
 7. Ohio State:               L, T (Nebraska-Omaha)
 8. Minnesota-Duluth:         W, L (Brown)
 9. North Dakota:             W, W (St. Cloud)
 10. Cornell:                 T, L (Vermont, Dartmouth)
 11. Denver:                  L, W (Minnesota)
 12. Maine:                   W (Massachusetts)
 13. Northern Michigan:       idle
 14. Michigan State:          L, L (Michigan)
 15. Boston University:       W, W (Mass.-Lowell)

Lynah needs to be rockin when the team comes back for the next three home games. With there road record being 0-2-2 we need to boost the morale! Strange though, we had a better record on the road last year than at home. Amazing what at announcement that you are moving to hockey east can do for your program (from worst to first in a year). It sounds like the Dartmouth fans willed there club to the win, we'll get them at Lynah later in the season by that time we'll see if we are going to compete this year or prepare for next year.

[Q]Brian Wrote:

It sounds like the Dartmouth fans willed there club to the win[/q]
The Dartmouth what? Clearly you're not referring to the two completely empty student sections until the third period. Or maybe Thompson's half-step-above-a-morgue atmosphere. The outcome of the game had nothing to do with the people in the seats and everything to do with the players on the ice.

Have to agree with your assessment about the fans. They were a pretty pathetic bunch. Many, many empty seats, no spirit, no coordination. Save for cheering for their goals, about the only noise they made was when we got a "Let's go Red!" cheer going and they tried to counter with "Green!". Wusses.

One has to wonder if when Dartmouth plays Harvard, anyone even shows up.

[Q]Killer Wrote:

Have to agree with your assessment about the fans. They were a pretty pathetic bunch. Many, many empty seats, no spirit, no coordination. Save for cheering for their goals, about the only noise they made was when we got a "Let's go Red!" cheer going and they tried to counter with "Green!". Wusses.

One has to wonder if when Dartmouth plays Harvard, anyone even shows up.[/q]

If you think Cornell Athletics is harsh, the folks at Dartmouth are 10 times worse.

When the band went last year, we were told "not to play when the team comes on the ice." I asked their band how they could tolerate this sort of overarching athletics control and they just shrugged. Apparently, the band didn't always go to hockey games, and athletics put a PR/Media man in charge of operations. He thinks he's in charge of an NHL game and has tight controls on everything.

I was biting my tongue after CowbellGuy's remarks, but enough's enough. Especially when some of your remarks are so off base it's laughable.

Dartmouth-Harvard last year in Thompson Arena had people standing outside in sub-freezing temperatures watching through the windows because it was sold out. Largest (and best) crowd I've ever seen for a Dartmouth game, and I'd expect this year's to be just as big considering Harvard has had our number as much as we have yours (no one on this year's team has beaten Harvard.)

And remind me again who led the ECAC in attendance last year? It wasn't the Lynah Faithful or the nuts at the Gut. I'm not going to claim we're the best fan base, but considering where it was 5 years ago following the 20th straight losing season, I'm definitely happy with the direction it's headed.

As far as the band goes, 2 years ago the athletics department asked the band if they wanted to work every hockey game. They were going to pay them to do it. The band told them thanks but no thanks, they didn't want to work fulltime in the winter. So don't act like the Dartmouth band is a victim. They had their chance to have a more prominent role and declined it.

Plus, have you heard them? They suck, frankly, and when certain songs have been "ritualized" into the atmosphere (like U2 before the intros, Opus before the 3rd period, Zombie Nation after goals, etc), the band just gets in the way. The only good thing I can say about the band at hockey games is that they yell at the opposing goalie. Otherwise, I couldn't care less about whether they came to games or not.

And screw you, we got Keggy the Keg. That trumps all.

[Q]Killer Wrote:
One has to wonder if when Dartmouth plays Harvard, anyone even shows up.[/q]

And by the way, the two Dartmouth-Harvard regular season games last year:
[www.collegehockeystats.com] (Att: 4500 - sellout)
[www.collegehockeystats.com] (Att: 2776 - sellout)

If you're going to bash my school, at least do it correctly.

[Q]Dart~Ben Wrote:

And remind me again who led the ECAC in attendance last year? It wasn't the Lynah Faithful or the nuts at the Gut. I'm not going to claim we're the best fan base, but considering where it was 5 years ago following the 20th straight losing season, I'm definitely happy with the direction it's headed. [/q]

When you start selling out each and every home game for an entire season or two, then you'll be able to talk about attendance. Otherwise, you're still the team with close to two empty sections throughout the majority of the game.

The, uh, Thompson Faithful are on the right path, but like you said, they've still got a long way to go.

And, with regard to Keggy, you should bring him on the road trip to Lynah.

True enough, although I will point out that Dartmouth is roughly 1/3rd the size of Cornell (4,400 undergrads to 13,600 undergrads), Hanover is helluva lot smaller than Ithaca, and hell, Cornell alone is bigger than Hanover andthe Dartmouth student body combined. And yet our arena is roughly 15-20% bigger. You could fit the entire Dartmouth student body into Thompson and it wouldn't be a sellout.

Not excusing the late arriving fans who pissed me off as much as anyone when I was a student, but sheer demographics say it's a lot harder to fill 4500 seats in Hanover than 3800 seats in Ithaca

Seems to me I did do it correctly. I wondered if anyone shows up. OK, so they do. So what? Whatever number of so-called Dartmouth fans it was that showed up last Saturday, they were still pathetic when it came to supporting the team. If you're gonna be that quiet, go to the library. Are they as piss-poor when you play Harvard?

And, BTW, I don't know how you guys report your attendance, but you have to take Harvard's numbers with a grain of salt. I went to the BC-Harvard game at Harvard last week. The official attendance was 2776, a sellout. Yeah, in their friggin' dreams. They may have sold all the tickets, but there had to be five or six hundred empty seats, and no way those seats could have been filled by the folks standing. They just don't support their team.

Oh yeah, and just to comment further on your attendance numbers, last year's Cornell game at Dartmouth was reported to have had 4182 people there. That would be only 318 short of capacity. Well, having been to that game as well, I can report that if you'd put another 1,000 people into the place, you'd still have had empty seats.

[Q]Dart~Ben Wrote:

True enough, although I will point out that Dartmouth is roughly 1/3rd the size of Cornell (4,400 undergrads to 13,600 undergrads), Hanover is helluva lot smaller than Ithaca, and hell, Cornell alone is bigger than Hanover andthe Dartmouth student body combined. And yet our arena is roughly 15-20% bigger. You could fit the entire Dartmouth student body into Thompson and it wouldn't be a sellout. Not excusing the late arriving fans who pissed me off as much as anyone when I was a student, but sheer demographics say it's a lot harder to fill 4500 seats in Hanover than 3800 seats in Ithaca[/q]

Size matters to Dartmouth men, eh? Small town, small turnout, small ...

Maybe it's the quality of the fans that matters more than the size of the student body or the town or surrounding area. University of North Dakota (enrollment 11,000 undergrads) has no problem filling an 11,500 seat arena in a city that's bigger than Hanover in a state that's smaller (population) than New Hampshire.

Published attendance figures are a joke at many schools. Cornell at Princeton games are reported as sellouts, but if the place is four-fifths full for the Cornell game in Princeton, that's pretty good, and no other game comes close in attendance or noise (not Princeton's noise). Not surprisingly, schools seem more interested in looking good than reporting how many tickets stubs were actually collected.

Too bad for Dartmouth that pouring grain alcohol down the throats of weekending Pine Manor women isn't recognized by the NCAA as a varsity sport. Then the Big Green would be true NCAA offense leaders in one winter sport.

[q]Published attendance figures are a joke at many schools. ... Not surprisingly, schools seem more interested in looking good than reporting how many tickets stubs were actually collected. [/q]I don't think may sports/leagues report turnstile count anymore, long ago switching to ticket sales as a measure. Which makes some sense from the perspective of a pro or big-time college team, since it's the sale that's paying the bills not the turnstile.

[Q]KeithK Wrote:

I don't think may sports/leagues report turnstile count anymore, long ago switching to ticket sales as a measure. Which makes some sense from the perspective of a pro or big-time college team, since it's the sale that's paying the bills not the turnstile.[/q]

Generally, yes, unless things like concessions are taken into account. 5,000 sold-out, empty seats will buy no hot dogs. Perhaps there are stub counts done for this purpose, just not published for the public, since obviously "sellout" looks better than "70% filled".

Arguing about attendance is a sure sign that we lost the game...

Greg, well said... Dartmouth is the new Union (except good against the rest of the league).

Nice to see you posting again, Dart~Ben. Your comments are always an interesting read.

[Q]Dart~Ben Wrote:

I was biting my tongue after CowbellGuy's remarks, but enough's enough. Especially when some of your remarks are so off base it's laughable.

Edited 1 times. Last edit at 11/22/04 07:44PM by Dart~Ben.[/q]

CowbellGuy's remarks were right on base, however. I watched the game on the free video that Dartmouth was kind enough to provide (are you listening, Cornell Athletics!?). The Dartmouth crowd was pretty sparse and pretty quiet - completely commensurate with the crowds I've seen there in person on at least 5 occasions.

[Q]billhoward Wrote:
University of North Dakota (enrollment 11,000 undergrads) has no problem filling an 11,500 seat arena in a city that's bigger than Hanover in a state that's smaller (population) than New Hampshire. [/q]

North Dakota hockey is also the only D1 sport in the state, at least traditionally (I forget if NDSU and/or NoDak have moved up to 1-AA officially or not). It's not unlike Nebraska football, in that people will make weekends out of the games and travel from all corners of the state and beyond. They are an entity unto themselves in college hockey in that regard, the only other team that might be in a similar situation is Maine.

Dartmouth, or Cornell, will never become their state's "team" like North Dakota or Nebraska simply because they're private schools (and in the case of New York, there's the whole professional sports thing too). Because of that, they have to rely on students and the local community. I saw the same thing at Creighton in Omaha. They've always gotten tremendous support from the Omaha area. They are arguably Nebraska's best sports team at the moment, having posted 20-win seasons in hoops for 6-7 years straight and beaten Nebraska in 7 of the last 8 meetings or something like that. But as you head toward Lincoln and farther west, people will tell you they'll root for the Huskers over the Bluejays any day of the week.

It is going to be interesting to be at Thompson tonight for Dartmouth-Maine. Apparently the game's already sold-out, though with students on Thanksgiving break the campus and town are absolutely dead (I'm typing this from campus, and no one is around). I'm not going to be shocked, though I will be dismayed, to find the entire arena packed to the rafters and then the entire student section empty. Hopefully the ticket office/athletic department cut the student section by a section or two like they do for the Christmas Tournament games and opened up those seats for sale.

Good luck against Maine. Right now we need the rest of the ECAC to keep the quality non-conference wins coming!

Too bad the various athletic departments (including Cornell's) can't work some kind of better deal to get in townspeople on thanksgiving weekend so the places are filled, not just sold out, every game.

Right now it sounds as if you have to voluntarily turn your tickets back in to the ticket office? If so that means a trip to the office. (Or can an email notice suffice?) Plus I bet there's a lot of students living within driving distance of Cornell who hold on to their tickets, because they're not sure if they've had all they can take of family togetherness by noon Saturday, and keep in the backs of their minds that they could be back on campus watching the hockey team rather than hearing Uncle Freddie's tales of his exploits in the Navy one more time.

If nothing else, maybe Cornell could sell 250 more standing room tickets and say that any seats not claimed after Period 1 are theirs for the taking.

Actually, Cornell does (or at least has in the past --my experience being the two BU games at Lynah a couple years back) up the sale of standing room tickets and allow you to take unclaimed seats.

Unofficially, when we bought standing room tickets for a regular weekend (ie not Harvard), it was no problem to move into the seats that were unclaimed. Dozens not hundreds of people could do this. I was thinking about something more upfront for a Thanksgiving weekend game from Cornell athletics, perhaps telling townspeople who wanted to see a Big Red game that they could get almost guaranteed seating in advance. Maybe Cornell does something like fill the most empty student sections with students (with reserved seats) from the bottom, and townies from the top. There ought to be some way to promote, "This is your chance to see the Big Red in action ... see what it's all about."

It seems to me that during Schafer's first season as head coach, there was an organized effort to provide tickets to the Thanksgiving break game to disadvantaged children or something, and Cornell students were encouraged to donate tickets they wouldn't be using. I thought it was a great idea, and IIRC a couple hundred such tickets were used in this way. What ever happened to that?

Beeeej

[Q]Beeeej Wrote:

It seems to me that during Schafer's first season as head coach, there was an organized effort to provide tickets to the Thanksgiving break game to disadvantaged children or something, and Cornell students were encouraged to donate tickets they wouldn't be using. I thought it was a great idea, and IIRC a couple hundred such tickets were used in this way. What ever happened to that?

Beeeej[/q]

I don't believe anything ever happened to that. I certainly remember announcements -- or at least signs posted around Lynah -- and such in the weeks leading up to Thanksgiving (and winter break, should we happen to have a game then as well) asking for the donation of tickets.