Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by DeltaOne81
Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: March 17, 2004 06:57PM
I just came back from the lacrosse game which ended with 2:33 remaining after a player, apparently named George, collapsed on the field. The score was 9-6 Cornell at the time. I'm pretty sure it was a guy who had just gotten smacked by the ball pretty hard - #21, George something - he jogged around for a minute and then collapsed. The players cleared the field and the doctors and emergency staff worked on him for several minutes before being put into an ambulence and driven away. CPR was done, I think defibulation, apparently unsuccessfully. The player shoot hands and walked off the field with the game unfinished.
I'm still in shock.
If anyone went to the game on my recommendation, I feel I owe some kind of apology for you having witnessed that. My prayers are with him, but I don't think they did any good.
I'm still in shock.
If anyone went to the game on my recommendation, I feel I owe some kind of apology for you having witnessed that. My prayers are with him, but I don't think they did any good.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: peterg (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 07:52PM
The player was senior defenseman George Boiardi. The last I heard (about 6:45 pm) he was at Cayuga Medical Center where doctors were determining whether he should be medivac-ed out to another facility.
I don't have any medical details, other than having seen the trainers and ambulance crew administer CPR and bring the defibrillator onto the field. For what it is worth, when placed in the ambulance an IV was in place. The ambulance did leave with sirens. From the sense of the people around the player and team, the situation for George is dire.
As far as I know the team was still together in the locker room and planning to be there until they had some further word.
I don't have any medical details, other than having seen the trainers and ambulance crew administer CPR and bring the defibrillator onto the field. For what it is worth, when placed in the ambulance an IV was in place. The ambulance did leave with sirens. From the sense of the people around the player and team, the situation for George is dire.
As far as I know the team was still together in the locker room and planning to be there until they had some further word.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: ben03 (---.nyc.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 08:00PM
As a friend of Georges I am in total shock right now ... I can only ask that you all say some sort of prayer for him.
___________________________
Let's GO Red!!!
Let's GO Red!!!
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: hike (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:40PM
What is a defibrulator used for? Getting breathing started again?
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: hike (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:42PM
I'm sorry to report this, but George Boiardi has passed away.
May our prayers be with him and his family.
May our prayers be with him and his family.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Brian (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:54PM
I am an avid Cornell hockey fan that is a current student at Binghamton University (the opponent). I will post the reaction of the Binghamton players when they become available. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family and the Cornell lacrosse family.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Rob NH (---.lndnnh.adelphia.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:55PM
OMG, simply horrible. My prayers to his family and friends.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2004 10:56PM by .
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Micaela (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:57PM
The heart, for a number of reasons, can get into a very bad rhythm called ventricular fibrillation. Instead of the ventricle squeezing in a smooth stroke to pump blood, it just jitters and spasms in a disorganized fashion. This means very little blood gets pumped, and invariably leads to death if not reversed. A defibrillator attempts to restore normal rhythm by delivering an electrical shock to the heart. (This is the machine with the paddles in ER where everyone yells "clear."
Micaela
Micaela
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: jy3 (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:58PM
this is simply aweful. my prayers go out to his family and friends.
___________________________
LGR!!!!!!!!!!
jy3 '00
LGR!!!!!!!!!!
jy3 '00
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: David Harding (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 10:59PM
A defibrillator is for the heart. When the heart muscles get mixed up and start firing randomly instead of synchronously, it's called fibrillation. A defibrillator applies a high voltage at a suitable frequency, trying to overpower the spontaneous firing and get things going together again. These used to required a well trained user, but recently defibrillators have become available that can monitor the heart activity and control the voltage and the frequency appropriately. These are being placed in many public places, as the first few minutes after a heart attack are critical.
I don't know anything about this case except what I've read here, but a hard blow to the chest at just the wrong moment in the heart cycle can disrupt the heart's rhythm and be fatal. It happens more frequently when a batter is hit in the chest with a pitched baseball, but I can easily imagine that happening with a lacrosse ball.
I don't know anything about this case except what I've read here, but a hard blow to the chest at just the wrong moment in the heart cycle can disrupt the heart's rhythm and be fatal. It happens more frequently when a batter is hit in the chest with a pitched baseball, but I can easily imagine that happening with a lacrosse ball.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:08PM
That's terrible news. I'll bet no one thought this would happen when they got up this morning. Life occasionally decides it wants to slug you when you aren't looking, and things like this happen. My thoughts are with his family and friends.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: hike (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:09PM
Thanks for the explanations, guys. Very upset to hear about this.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Rob NH (---.lndnnh.adelphia.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:18PM
The OCSN recap just mentions "The game was called with 2:33 to play in the fourth quarter after a Big Red player was injured." Doesn't mention Boiardi by name or have any further updates (yet).
EDIT: The Binghamton Athletics page doesn't mention the incident or the game being called early, just a brief write up on the loss.
EDIT: The Binghamton Athletics page doesn't mention the incident or the game being called early, just a brief write up on the loss.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2004 11:21PM by .
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Will (---.cable.mindspring.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:19PM
This is so sad. My condolences to his friends and family.
___________________________
Is next year here yet?
Is next year here yet?
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Kristi 97 (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:30PM
My prayers go out to the family and players of both teams. As a Cornell ('97) and BU (grad) student, a cardiovascular biologist and a lacrosse player (BU W club), I cannot express my sympathy. This is such a tragedy.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: ugarte (---.ny325.east.verizon.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:44PM
This is sad and sickening. I can't even begin to contemplate the pain his family is feeling.
Please post any information about sending condolences to the family or any info if the family or school establishes a memorial fund.
Please post any information about sending condolences to the family or any info if the family or school establishes a memorial fund.
___________________________
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
quality tweets | bluesky (twitter 2) | ALAB Series podcast | Other podcasts and writing
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Kristen'00 (---.syracuse-03rh15rt.ny.dial-access.att.net)
Date: March 17, 2004 11:54PM
I heard the sad news while watching the 11pm broadcast. It's truly shocking. My prayers go out to George's family, friends, the lax team and the whole Cornell community. Since the newscast just had a short blurb, I wanted to find out more information and it's nice to know that there is an outlet like this where we can come together, especially in a time like this. Please continue to post updates as they become available.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Ben Rocky '04 (---.resnet.cornell.edu)
Date: March 18, 2004 02:31AM
As a freshman suitemate of George, I just want to say that he was an incredibly warm and friendly guy, and was the epitome of what a student- athlete- Cornellian should be.
My condolences to his family, teammates, and ATO brothers. His loss will be felt across campus. May he rest in peace.
My condolences to his family, teammates, and ATO brothers. His loss will be felt across campus. May he rest in peace.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Shorts (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 18, 2004 03:44AM
The AP is running a blurb. In addition, there are a couple articles in today's Sun:
Main report: [www.cornellsun.com]
Reaction: [www.cornellsun.com]
It feels like Cornell Athletics has had more than it's share of tragedy in the 4 years I've been on the Hill.
Main report: [www.cornellsun.com]
Reaction: [www.cornellsun.com]
It feels like Cornell Athletics has had more than it's share of tragedy in the 4 years I've been on the Hill.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: jeh25 (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: March 18, 2004 09:43AM
Louis Acompora, 14 year old goalie on LI, was killed in a similar manner in March 2000.
Although a cause of death has not been determined for George Boiardi, commotio cordis certainly seems possible.
As mentioned by both Micaela and David, if the chest is struck during a very narrow window in the repolarization phase of the muscle, ventricular fibrillation can result. I poked around in PubMed and it turns out that an animal model exists; they launch baseballs at the chests of juvenile pigs at 30-40 mph and can get the heart to stop if impact occurs on the upslope of the T-wave. (Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2003 May-Jul;82(1-3):175-86.)
Also, I pulled up the abstract of the JAMA article mentioned in the Daily Sun (JAMA. 2002 Mar 6;287(9):1142-6). Turns out that chest protection doesn't necessarily protect athletes from commotio cordis:
"Commotio cordis events occurred most commonly during organized sporting events (79 [62%]), such as baseball, but 49 (38%) occurred as part of daily routine and recreational activities. Fatal blows were inflicted with a wide range of velocities but often occurred inadvertently and under circumstances not usually associated with risk for sudden death in informal settings near the home or playground. Twenty-two (28%) participants were wearing commercially available chest barriers, including 7 in whom the projectile made direct contact with protective padding (baseball catchers and lacrosse/hockey goalies), and 2 in whom the projectile was a baseball specifically designed to reduce risk. Only 21 (16%) individuals survived their event, with particularly prompt cardiopulmonary resuscitation/defibrillation (most commonly reversing ventricular fibrillation) the only identifiable factor associated with a favorable outcome.
Although a cause of death has not been determined for George Boiardi, commotio cordis certainly seems possible.
As mentioned by both Micaela and David, if the chest is struck during a very narrow window in the repolarization phase of the muscle, ventricular fibrillation can result. I poked around in PubMed and it turns out that an animal model exists; they launch baseballs at the chests of juvenile pigs at 30-40 mph and can get the heart to stop if impact occurs on the upslope of the T-wave. (Prog Biophys Mol Biol. 2003 May-Jul;82(1-3):175-86.)
Also, I pulled up the abstract of the JAMA article mentioned in the Daily Sun (JAMA. 2002 Mar 6;287(9):1142-6). Turns out that chest protection doesn't necessarily protect athletes from commotio cordis:
"Commotio cordis events occurred most commonly during organized sporting events (79 [62%]), such as baseball, but 49 (38%) occurred as part of daily routine and recreational activities. Fatal blows were inflicted with a wide range of velocities but often occurred inadvertently and under circumstances not usually associated with risk for sudden death in informal settings near the home or playground. Twenty-two (28%) participants were wearing commercially available chest barriers, including 7 in whom the projectile made direct contact with protective padding (baseball catchers and lacrosse/hockey goalies), and 2 in whom the projectile was a baseball specifically designed to reduce risk. Only 21 (16%) individuals survived their event, with particularly prompt cardiopulmonary resuscitation/defibrillation (most commonly reversing ventricular fibrillation) the only identifiable factor associated with a favorable outcome.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: CUlater 89 (64.244.223.---)
Date: March 18, 2004 11:00AM
Didn't this also happen in a junior hockey game in the past year or so?
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: adamw (---.benslm01.pa.comcast.net)
Date: March 18, 2004 11:14AM
Not sure if you're referring to this:
[www.uscho.com]
12-year old hockey player in Mass.
This whole thing is truly awful.
[www.uscho.com]
12-year old hockey player in Mass.
This whole thing is truly awful.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Chris 02 (---.larc.nasa.gov)
Date: March 18, 2004 01:06PM
Nice ribbon, Age.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: O.S.B. (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 18, 2004 06:56PM
Does anybody know if this is nat'l news I did see it on espn.com but it wasn't mentioned on PTI
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Beeeej (---.nycmny83.dynamic.covad.net)
Date: March 19, 2004 12:47AM
Ribbon? What am I missing?
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
Beeeej
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
Beeeej
___________________________
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Beeeej, Esq.
"Cornell isn't an organization. It's a loose affiliation of independent fiefdoms united by a common hockey team."
- Steve Worona
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Shorts (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 19, 2004 12:49AM
OSB--as I mentioned, the AP picked it up, and so a brief mention was given in many news sources nationwide.
Other updates:
Controversy in the Sun about their decision to print certain details of the game:
Letter to editor: [www.cornelldailysun.com]
Editorial response: [www.cornelldailysun.com]
Cornell Athletics (OCSN) site, including the comments of University Officials from Cornell, Binghamton, and Syracuse, as well as a link for submitting "thoughts, prayers and remembrances": [cornellbigred.ocsn.com]
Other updates:
Controversy in the Sun about their decision to print certain details of the game:
Letter to editor: [www.cornelldailysun.com]
Editorial response: [www.cornelldailysun.com]
Cornell Athletics (OCSN) site, including the comments of University Officials from Cornell, Binghamton, and Syracuse, as well as a link for submitting "thoughts, prayers and remembrances": [cornellbigred.ocsn.com]
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: dss28 (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: March 19, 2004 02:07AM
The Hartford Courant mentioned it, too.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: RichH (---.stny.rr.com)
Date: March 19, 2004 04:14AM
A similar event happened to Chris Pronger in the 1998 NHL playoffs. He was struck in the chest with a puck, and was unconcious for several minutes. Apparently he went into cardiac arrhythmia, and was kept in the hospital, but recovered and played in the next game.
[www.canoe.ca]
I remember that as being a very freightening episode. It's an absolute tragedy that Boiardi didn't recover. My thoughts go out to everyone who knew George.
[www.canoe.ca]
I remember that as being a very freightening episode. It's an absolute tragedy that Boiardi didn't recover. My thoughts go out to everyone who knew George.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Chris 02 (---.larc.nasa.gov)
Date: March 19, 2004 10:18AM
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
Ribbon? What am I missing?
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
Beeeej
[/Q]
See the front page of the forum.
Ribbon? What am I missing?
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
Beeeej
[/Q]
See the front page of the forum.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: ugarte (65.217.153.---)
Date: March 19, 2004 10:18AM
[Q]Beeeej Wrote:
Ribbon? What am I missing?
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
[/Q]Look on the forum message list page, in place of the prior championships.
Ribbon? What am I missing?
What a godawful thing to happen. I'm just horrified.
[/Q]Look on the forum message list page, in place of the prior championships.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2004 11:19AM by .
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Pete Godenschwager (---.253.86.124-dhcp.chem.cornell.edu)
Date: March 19, 2004 10:53AM
Tony Kornheiser is talking about the subject on his radio show right now
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: March 19, 2004 05:33PM
I hate to spread rumors, but I've read from a few sources, including a Newsday article, that the cause of death may not have been commotio cordis, but rather internal bleeding caused by a shot to the abdomen, not chest. I wouldn't share it if it was just forum speculation, but Newsday carries enough weight to at least be worth a mention.
We'll have to wait for more official releases, obviously, but the, well, I hate to call it an 'upside', is that this is easier to protect against. While commotio cordis can't be easily protected, even by kevlar vests, . RIP George. Perhaps your memory can help make the game safer for others.
[www.newsday.com]
We'll have to wait for more official releases, obviously, but the, well, I hate to call it an 'upside', is that this is easier to protect against. While commotio cordis can't be easily protected, even by kevlar vests, . RIP George. Perhaps your memory can help make the game safer for others.
[www.newsday.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2004 05:33PM by .
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Al DeFlorio (---.ne.client2.attbi.com)
Date: April 02, 2004 08:15AM
[Q]DeltaOne81 Wrote:
I hate to spread rumors, but I've read from a few sources, including a Newsday article, that the cause of death may not have been commotio cordis, but rather internal bleeding caused by a shot to the abdomen, not chest. I wouldn't share it if it was just forum speculation, but Newsday carries enough weight to at least be worth a mention.
We'll have to wait for more official releases, obviously, but the, well, I hate to call it an 'upside', is that this is easier to protect against. While commotio cordis can't be easily protected, even by kevlar vests, . RIP George. Perhaps your memory can help make the game safer for others.
[www.newsday.com]
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 03/19/04 05:33PM by . [/Q]
Similar report from the Daily Pennsylvanian:[www.dailypennsylvanian.com]
I hate to spread rumors, but I've read from a few sources, including a Newsday article, that the cause of death may not have been commotio cordis, but rather internal bleeding caused by a shot to the abdomen, not chest. I wouldn't share it if it was just forum speculation, but Newsday carries enough weight to at least be worth a mention.
We'll have to wait for more official releases, obviously, but the, well, I hate to call it an 'upside', is that this is easier to protect against. While commotio cordis can't be easily protected, even by kevlar vests, . RIP George. Perhaps your memory can help make the game safer for others.
[www.newsday.com]
Edited 1 times. Last edit at 03/19/04 05:33PM by . [/Q]
Similar report from the Daily Pennsylvanian:[www.dailypennsylvanian.com]
___________________________
Al DeFlorio '65
Al DeFlorio '65
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: April 02, 2004 10:44PM
Firstly, I don't know how they could have gotten away without an autopsy. Most cases of unexplained death are medical examiner cases where he can order an autopsy without needing family permission. I can't imagine a medical examiner not doing a post, but does Ithaca have a pathologist as ME, or some less qualified person. It should be on the death certificate which I think is an open record, isn't it?
Secondly. the quote "Sources originally speculated that Boiardi died of commotio cordis, but if that were the case, he likely would have been revived with defibrillation." is not true. I've spoken with some very knowledgeable cardiologists, specializing in electrophysiology, who say there is something very special about this form of cardiac arrhythmia which makes it especially resistant to defibrillation.
Secondly. the quote "Sources originally speculated that Boiardi died of commotio cordis, but if that were the case, he likely would have been revived with defibrillation." is not true. I've spoken with some very knowledgeable cardiologists, specializing in electrophysiology, who say there is something very special about this form of cardiac arrhythmia which makes it especially resistant to defibrillation.
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: April 02, 2004 11:41PM
Yeah, Jim's right that the second part doesn't hold up, but it's just the Daily Pennsylvanian. The first part appears to make sense, though a Sun article a few days ago had quotes from the university that, while not officially commenting on the cause of death, said that there could be other causes for bleeding, such as his fall.
Nonetheless, it really is a shame that they family decided not to get an official cause of death, IMHO. I believe the law on needing one varies by state and perhaps by conditions. For religious reasons or whatever, I generally think the family should have a choice, I just wish in this case they had made a different one.
Nonetheless, it really is a shame that they family decided not to get an official cause of death, IMHO. I believe the law on needing one varies by state and perhaps by conditions. For religious reasons or whatever, I generally think the family should have a choice, I just wish in this case they had made a different one.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Jerseygirl (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 03, 2004 12:36PM
Why is it a shame that the family didn't get a cause of death? Their son is dead. Do you think why he died really matters to them? An autopsy isn't going to change anything for them. Should the get a cause of death to satisfy everyone's morbid curiosity about this horrible tragedy? So we can all go, "Ah yes, that was it, I guess we can stop debating"? Or are you saying it's a shame purely because you think science should have their answer? Be honest with yourself.
I'm one of those people who likes to know everything that happens and why, but God forbid, if I were a parent whose child died, there's no way I'd lay my kid out on a ceramic table and let someone cut him or her open so people could have answers. It's not a shame, it's a totally legitimate choice. I'd say the real shame is the questioning of the choice at all, but whatever, free speech...
I'm one of those people who likes to know everything that happens and why, but God forbid, if I were a parent whose child died, there's no way I'd lay my kid out on a ceramic table and let someone cut him or her open so people could have answers. It's not a shame, it's a totally legitimate choice. I'd say the real shame is the questioning of the choice at all, but whatever, free speech...
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date: April 03, 2004 12:48PM
I honestly wish they had made another choice because it could possibly help avoid future tragedies. If it was commotio cordis, well, there's unfortunately not to much to be done about it, it seems. But if it was something else, we could know so the NCAA and appropriate authorities could decide if there's anything to do to avoid tragedies like this from occurring again.
I agree that the family should have every right to decide based on their own values and decisions - perhaps except in the cases of a criminal investigation.
Anyhow, I'm sorry the misunderstanding, the last thing I want to do it cause an argument around this situation. I feel bad in a way everything I post to this thread, so this is all I'll say. But it's not just morbid curiousity or some phantom ideal about science... I would hope that we could get real answers so maybe something could be done to decrease the likelyhood of anyone having to experience what the lax community, Cornell community, and the Boiardi family have.
I agree that the family should have every right to decide based on their own values and decisions - perhaps except in the cases of a criminal investigation.
Anyhow, I'm sorry the misunderstanding, the last thing I want to do it cause an argument around this situation. I feel bad in a way everything I post to this thread, so this is all I'll say. But it's not just morbid curiousity or some phantom ideal about science... I would hope that we could get real answers so maybe something could be done to decrease the likelyhood of anyone having to experience what the lax community, Cornell community, and the Boiardi family have.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Greenberg '97 (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 03, 2004 02:07PM
As a former lacrosse player and future medical examiner, I've been meaning to chime in on this for a while.
Autopsy permission is a state-by-state decision. However, I believe medical examiner jurisdiction varies by municipality. In New York City (where I am most familiar), we follow New York State law for hospital autopsies (requiring permission from the next of kin), but the medical examiner has jurisdiction over all cases of "unnatural death." In this case, as the death was caused by injury, it would have been a medical examiner's case, who would have certainly performed an autopsy.
The one exception to this is when a family strongly objects to autopsy, usually on religious grounds. It is the ME's discretion as to whether or not to grant that objection, or to proceed with the autopsy. The ME will take into account several factors, the most important of which is the implication on public health. (In my opinion, learning about a sports injury to possibly make equipment safer in the future IS in the interest of public health).
Now, about commotio cordis... Whether or not this electrophysiological phenomenon actually happens is controversial. Some cases that were thought to be commotio cordis, upon detailed dissection of the heart, turned out to show microscopic cardiac contusion, with actually injury to the cardiac muscle.
From a resuscitation point of view, asystole (the absence of electrical activity) does not respond to defibrillation. Any movie or TV show where you see them shock a flatliner is just wrong. If commotio cordis exists, and it results in asystole, it wouldn't respond to electric defibrillation.
Blunt trauma to the chest can cause death numerous other ways -- a fractured sternum, a lacerated aorta, cardiac contusion or rupture. He also could have had one of several congenital heart diseases that happened to be aggravated by the injury (such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the classic "young athlete with sudden death". In this sense, it is a great disservice to his family to forego an autopsy.
The bottom line is that determining a true cause of death in such a case is much more than just "morbid curiosity."
All that aside, I continue to extend my deepest sympathy to Boiardi's on- and off-field families.
Michael J. Greenberg, M.D.
Resident, Department of Pathology, Mount Sinai Hospital
Fellow, Office of Chief Medical Examiner, City of New York (2005-06)
Autopsy permission is a state-by-state decision. However, I believe medical examiner jurisdiction varies by municipality. In New York City (where I am most familiar), we follow New York State law for hospital autopsies (requiring permission from the next of kin), but the medical examiner has jurisdiction over all cases of "unnatural death." In this case, as the death was caused by injury, it would have been a medical examiner's case, who would have certainly performed an autopsy.
The one exception to this is when a family strongly objects to autopsy, usually on religious grounds. It is the ME's discretion as to whether or not to grant that objection, or to proceed with the autopsy. The ME will take into account several factors, the most important of which is the implication on public health. (In my opinion, learning about a sports injury to possibly make equipment safer in the future IS in the interest of public health).
Now, about commotio cordis... Whether or not this electrophysiological phenomenon actually happens is controversial. Some cases that were thought to be commotio cordis, upon detailed dissection of the heart, turned out to show microscopic cardiac contusion, with actually injury to the cardiac muscle.
From a resuscitation point of view, asystole (the absence of electrical activity) does not respond to defibrillation. Any movie or TV show where you see them shock a flatliner is just wrong. If commotio cordis exists, and it results in asystole, it wouldn't respond to electric defibrillation.
Blunt trauma to the chest can cause death numerous other ways -- a fractured sternum, a lacerated aorta, cardiac contusion or rupture. He also could have had one of several congenital heart diseases that happened to be aggravated by the injury (such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the classic "young athlete with sudden death". In this sense, it is a great disservice to his family to forego an autopsy.
The bottom line is that determining a true cause of death in such a case is much more than just "morbid curiosity."
All that aside, I continue to extend my deepest sympathy to Boiardi's on- and off-field families.
Michael J. Greenberg, M.D.
Resident, Department of Pathology, Mount Sinai Hospital
Fellow, Office of Chief Medical Examiner, City of New York (2005-06)
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.biz.rr.com)
Date: April 03, 2004 02:24PM
[Q]Greenberg '97 Wrote:
As a former lacrosse player and future medical examiner, I've been meaning to chime in on this for a while.
Autopsy permission is a state-by-state decision. However, I believe medical examiner jurisdiction varies by municipality. In New York City (where I am most familiar), we follow New York State law for hospital autopsies (requiring permission from the next of kin), but the medical examiner has jurisdiction over all cases of "unnatural death." In this case, as the death was caused by injury, it would have been a medical examiner's case, who would have certainly performed an autopsy.
The one exception to this is when a family strongly objects to autopsy, usually on religious grounds. It is the ME's discretion as to whether or not to grant that objection, or to proceed with the autopsy. The ME will take into account several factors, the most important of which is the implication on public health. (In my opinion, learning about a sports injury to possibly make equipment safer in the future IS in the interest of public health).
Now, about commotio cordis... Whether or not this electrophysiological phenomenon actually happens is controversial. Some cases that were thought to be commotio cordis, upon detailed dissection of the heart, turned out to show microscopic cardiac contusion, with actually injury to the cardiac muscle.
From a resuscitation point of view, asystole (the absence of electrical activity) does not respond to defibrillation. Any movie or TV show where you see them shock a flatliner is just wrong. If commotio cordis exists, and it results in asystole, it wouldn't respond to electric defibrillation.
Blunt trauma to the chest can cause death numerous other ways -- a fractured sternum, a lacerated aorta, cardiac contusion or rupture. He also could have had one of several congenital heart diseases that happened to be aggravated by the injury (such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the classic "young athlete with sudden death". In this sense, it is a great disservice to his family to forego an autopsy.
The bottom line is that determining a true cause of death in such a case is much more than just "morbid curiosity."
All that aside, I continue to extend my deepest sympathy to Boiardi's on- and off-field families.
Michael J. Greenberg, M.D.
Resident, Department of Pathology, Mount Sinai Hospital
Fellow, Office of Chief Medical Examiner, City of New York (2005-06)[/q]Thanks, that was the best discussion, about the process and reasons, yet posted. Autopsies do make a difference.
As a former lacrosse player and future medical examiner, I've been meaning to chime in on this for a while.
Autopsy permission is a state-by-state decision. However, I believe medical examiner jurisdiction varies by municipality. In New York City (where I am most familiar), we follow New York State law for hospital autopsies (requiring permission from the next of kin), but the medical examiner has jurisdiction over all cases of "unnatural death." In this case, as the death was caused by injury, it would have been a medical examiner's case, who would have certainly performed an autopsy.
The one exception to this is when a family strongly objects to autopsy, usually on religious grounds. It is the ME's discretion as to whether or not to grant that objection, or to proceed with the autopsy. The ME will take into account several factors, the most important of which is the implication on public health. (In my opinion, learning about a sports injury to possibly make equipment safer in the future IS in the interest of public health).
Now, about commotio cordis... Whether or not this electrophysiological phenomenon actually happens is controversial. Some cases that were thought to be commotio cordis, upon detailed dissection of the heart, turned out to show microscopic cardiac contusion, with actually injury to the cardiac muscle.
From a resuscitation point of view, asystole (the absence of electrical activity) does not respond to defibrillation. Any movie or TV show where you see them shock a flatliner is just wrong. If commotio cordis exists, and it results in asystole, it wouldn't respond to electric defibrillation.
Blunt trauma to the chest can cause death numerous other ways -- a fractured sternum, a lacerated aorta, cardiac contusion or rupture. He also could have had one of several congenital heart diseases that happened to be aggravated by the injury (such as hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, the classic "young athlete with sudden death". In this sense, it is a great disservice to his family to forego an autopsy.
The bottom line is that determining a true cause of death in such a case is much more than just "morbid curiosity."
All that aside, I continue to extend my deepest sympathy to Boiardi's on- and off-field families.
Michael J. Greenberg, M.D.
Resident, Department of Pathology, Mount Sinai Hospital
Fellow, Office of Chief Medical Examiner, City of New York (2005-06)[/q]Thanks, that was the best discussion, about the process and reasons, yet posted. Autopsies do make a difference.
___________________________
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
"Cornell Fans Made the Timbers Tremble", Boston Globe, March/1970
Cornell lawyers stopped the candy throwing. Jan/2005
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: Jerseygirl (---.dyn.optonline.net)
Date: April 03, 2004 06:02PM
I am well aware of the many arguments in favor of autopsy in cases such as this, especially the argument of "if we did an autopsy and determined that this could be prevented by wearing a chest guard, the sport would be made safer for everyone." And I know autopsies make a difference. In fact, one of the first thoughts I had after I heard the terrible news was, "I hope this makes them finally put chest guards on those kids."
However, I also feel like in an age when information is more accessible than ever, people have developed a "right to know" mentality. I work in news, and I see it all the time. Sometimes we don't scoop everyone else by broadcasting the gory details of the latest attack in Iraq, but I rest easy at night knowing we broadcast our show with dignity and respect. My friend was shot while serving in Iraq, and as they loaded him in the ambulance, a Fox News crew stuck a camera in his face and recorded the event. He asked them to turn the camera off, saying, "I don't want my mom to see this, please." Well, they didn't and she did. If people didn't have a morbid curiosity to get every detail of every issue, my friend wouldn't have had to worry about his mother seeing him after he got shot, BEFORE she was notified by the army. He's fine, by the way.
My sophomore year, I had a writing class with a very prominent member of the hockey team. The fact that it was an amazing class aside, he turned in a damn good memoir about what else? Playing hockey. One of the lines stuck out and made me incredibly sad, partly because I knew I was guilty of what he was writing about. He said, "People point and whisper in the library or on the arts quad when they see me. I hear my name talked about like the weather. They think I can't see them or hear them, but it's one thing I've never gotten used to."
Do people have a right to talk about his glove side weakness? Of course. But in doing so, I think it's easy to lose sight of the fact that we're talking about people instead of commodities. That's one thing that sometimes troubles me about this board, and why I reacted the way I did to DeltaOne81's post. George was a great kid, and it would be really nice to not reduce a fine young man's life and death to a medical debate, as I interpreted this thread was turning into. In fact, it would be really nice to keep in mind that for the most part we're talking about students who sacrifice a great deal to play the sport they love. Maybe I have such strong feelings because while other people criticize someone's slipping goal production, I've seen him pop 4000 mgs of Ibuprofen at once because he just wants his arm to stop hurting. When we make "objective" and sometimes downright cold assessments of someone's talent and/or effort, it would be nice to remember that he's not a seasoned professional getting paid millions of dollars to play for us. I could go on, but I won't, because I have a lot of thoughts in my head and I'm having trouble getting them out. A lot of things would be nice.
So yeah, maybe I'm more upset about George's passing than I've been admitting to myself. All I am saying is while I really do understand the many medical reasons beyond morbid curiosity (and there's no one who just wants to know what the cause of death was? Come on.), I think that at this point we can do nothing but accept that we're not going to get a definitive answer, and it does nothing to question the family's decision.
That said, between Eamon and George, Cornell Lacrosse has some damn fine guardian angels. Here's hoping they're having a good old time playing catch up in heaven.
However, I also feel like in an age when information is more accessible than ever, people have developed a "right to know" mentality. I work in news, and I see it all the time. Sometimes we don't scoop everyone else by broadcasting the gory details of the latest attack in Iraq, but I rest easy at night knowing we broadcast our show with dignity and respect. My friend was shot while serving in Iraq, and as they loaded him in the ambulance, a Fox News crew stuck a camera in his face and recorded the event. He asked them to turn the camera off, saying, "I don't want my mom to see this, please." Well, they didn't and she did. If people didn't have a morbid curiosity to get every detail of every issue, my friend wouldn't have had to worry about his mother seeing him after he got shot, BEFORE she was notified by the army. He's fine, by the way.
My sophomore year, I had a writing class with a very prominent member of the hockey team. The fact that it was an amazing class aside, he turned in a damn good memoir about what else? Playing hockey. One of the lines stuck out and made me incredibly sad, partly because I knew I was guilty of what he was writing about. He said, "People point and whisper in the library or on the arts quad when they see me. I hear my name talked about like the weather. They think I can't see them or hear them, but it's one thing I've never gotten used to."
Do people have a right to talk about his glove side weakness? Of course. But in doing so, I think it's easy to lose sight of the fact that we're talking about people instead of commodities. That's one thing that sometimes troubles me about this board, and why I reacted the way I did to DeltaOne81's post. George was a great kid, and it would be really nice to not reduce a fine young man's life and death to a medical debate, as I interpreted this thread was turning into. In fact, it would be really nice to keep in mind that for the most part we're talking about students who sacrifice a great deal to play the sport they love. Maybe I have such strong feelings because while other people criticize someone's slipping goal production, I've seen him pop 4000 mgs of Ibuprofen at once because he just wants his arm to stop hurting. When we make "objective" and sometimes downright cold assessments of someone's talent and/or effort, it would be nice to remember that he's not a seasoned professional getting paid millions of dollars to play for us. I could go on, but I won't, because I have a lot of thoughts in my head and I'm having trouble getting them out. A lot of things would be nice.
So yeah, maybe I'm more upset about George's passing than I've been admitting to myself. All I am saying is while I really do understand the many medical reasons beyond morbid curiosity (and there's no one who just wants to know what the cause of death was? Come on.), I think that at this point we can do nothing but accept that we're not going to get a definitive answer, and it does nothing to question the family's decision.
That said, between Eamon and George, Cornell Lacrosse has some damn fine guardian angels. Here's hoping they're having a good old time playing catch up in heaven.
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: David Harding (---.client.comcast.net)
Date: April 03, 2004 09:05PM
Thank you
Re: Cornell lax player collapses
Posted by: billhoward (---.union01.nj.comcast.net)
Date: April 04, 2004 09:05AM
[Q]Jerseygirl Wrote:
My sophomore year, I had a writing class with a very prominent member of the hockey team. The fact that it was an amazing class aside, he turned in a damn good memoir about what else? Playing hockey. One of the lines stuck out and made me incredibly sad, partly because I knew I was guilty of what he was writing about. He said, "People point and whisper in the library or on the arts quad when they see me. I hear my name talked about like the weather. They think I can't see them or hear them, but it's one thing I've never gotten used to."
[/q]
That's the price of fame, small-town style. You spend a lot of hours in the weight room and on ice but you get the thrill of being on a winning team. (Which beats the heck out of doing all the work and being on a losing team; consider the football players this year.) People whisper about you but you perhaps get to date a better class of woman than you would otherwise.
An erstwhile PC Mag columnist from the 1990s, Jim Seymour, used to coincidentally and occasionally ride the American shuttle from Austin to DFW with Barbara Bel Geddes, Miss Ellie from the Dallas TV show, and they were well known enough to get seats 1A and 1B if and when they flew together since they were comfortable with their relative fame and wouldn't bother each other. (Plus, Jim's bulk kind of dictated he sit in a bulkhead row.) One day an autograph seeker slipped past the curtain separating First from Steerage, interrupted their conversation, stuck a sheet of paper between them, and said, "I hate to interrupt, but I'm a really big fan of yours and I would love to get your autotgraph [ever so brief pause] ... Mr. Seymour." It was a computer groupie, not a Hollywood groupie. Afterward, BBG said, being interrupted hurt a lot, but once she had steeled herself to sign one more sheet of paper, *not* being asked for the autograph hurt even more.
My sophomore year, I had a writing class with a very prominent member of the hockey team. The fact that it was an amazing class aside, he turned in a damn good memoir about what else? Playing hockey. One of the lines stuck out and made me incredibly sad, partly because I knew I was guilty of what he was writing about. He said, "People point and whisper in the library or on the arts quad when they see me. I hear my name talked about like the weather. They think I can't see them or hear them, but it's one thing I've never gotten used to."
[/q]
That's the price of fame, small-town style. You spend a lot of hours in the weight room and on ice but you get the thrill of being on a winning team. (Which beats the heck out of doing all the work and being on a losing team; consider the football players this year.) People whisper about you but you perhaps get to date a better class of woman than you would otherwise.
An erstwhile PC Mag columnist from the 1990s, Jim Seymour, used to coincidentally and occasionally ride the American shuttle from Austin to DFW with Barbara Bel Geddes, Miss Ellie from the Dallas TV show, and they were well known enough to get seats 1A and 1B if and when they flew together since they were comfortable with their relative fame and wouldn't bother each other. (Plus, Jim's bulk kind of dictated he sit in a bulkhead row.) One day an autograph seeker slipped past the curtain separating First from Steerage, interrupted their conversation, stuck a sheet of paper between them, and said, "I hate to interrupt, but I'm a really big fan of yours and I would love to get your autotgraph [ever so brief pause] ... Mr. Seymour." It was a computer groupie, not a Hollywood groupie. Afterward, BBG said, being interrupted hurt a lot, but once she had steeled herself to sign one more sheet of paper, *not* being asked for the autograph hurt even more.
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