Midget

[sports.espn.go.com]

I realize I should celebrate the ECAC-spawn success, but argh. Midget. Does not compute!

<voice of Seinfeld greeting Newman>Midget.</voice>

The most enjoyable player to watch in 15 years of covering college hockey, and, as a result, my favorite NHL player (along with Todd White and Jeff Halpern).

With St. Louis, John LeClair, Todd White, Willie Mitchell, Joe Nieuwendyk, and Adam Oates all notching at least one goal in the first round (White and St. Louis both had OT winners), it's been a nice showcase for fans of ECAC alumni. I think that only Jeff Halpern and Todd Marchant went without a goal (of those who made the playoffs).

Edit: Just noticed that Steve Martins is on the Blues' roster, and has 1 assist.



Post Edited (04-22-03 01:27)

I think the TB-Devils match up will provide more enjoyment and if Ottawa and the devils win their series, we'll see a White-Neuiwendyk matchup though their lines may not play against each other too often.

Don't forget that Ottawa coach Jacques Martin is a Slu grad...and former sieve of the early 70s.

RPI's Brian Pothier played in at least one playoff game for Ottawa.

I thought St. Louis was an elf/munchkin. Zancanaro is the midget.

As a devastated Caps fan, it was hard to watch Martin St. Louis shred my team. He scored three game-winning goals in the series, and his line accounted (I think) for nearly every single goal scored against the Caps in all six games.

But the man is a joy to watch. We all knew he could score goals. But who knew he such a tough, gritty, hard-working little nut? I agree with Adam. He is, without a doubt, my favorite ECAC alumnus in the NHL after the Cornellians and Halpern.

Hillel J. Hoffmann '85 wrote:

But the man is a joy to watch. We all knew he could score goals. But who knew he such a tough, gritty, hard-working little nut?

You could see signs of it back at Vermont - which is why many believed he could play in the NHL, while Eric Perrin would struggle - among other reasons.

That line of St. Louis-Perrin and whoever else was with them was clearly one of the best lines in ECAC history.

It was St. Louis, Perrin and then any big guy to just take feeds from the midgets. Anyone big with a modicum of talent would have had a ton of goals centering that line...

-J

It was J.C. Ruid, I believe.



Post Edited (04-22-03 15:01)

Adam Wodon wrote:

The most enjoyable player to watch in 15 years of covering college hockey, and, as a result, my favorite NHL player (along with Todd White and Jeff Halpern).

St. Louis was just a name on the radio to me. My "favorite" player to watch was Joe Juneau. It was torture, but very fast and graceful torture. (Skating alongside a hammer named Coles.)

Juneau was great to watch, but even more so in the '92 Olympics when he ended up being the star of the Canadian team, even outshining the more heralded Eric Lindros (although Lindros had the play of the tourney; in one game, he was skating up ice coming out of his own end, with a stickless Juneau trailing him, when he came across Juneau's stick on the ice and used his own to flip the stick up so Juneau could grab it in stride and join the play in the offensive end). I was also in Boston when he joined the Bruins and became, for a while, a fan favorite.

It was Ruid, who was a hulk who turned like a battleship in bad weather. He was born one year too late -- he came back the year after the dwarves had left and went from about 50 points as their linemate to about 20 without them. I'd look it up in the IHDB [hockeydb.com] but it's incredibly slow right now.

We often joked that many of our grandmothers could put up the numbers Ruid did if put on that line.

Boy that Vermont team was a fun team to hate, with the Keebler Elves and Tim Thomas in net. They were into the stick-twirling celebrations that would really stick in opposing fans' craws. If they had a little more depth, they would've been unstoppable. I always took a little pride that in the '96 ECAC championship year, we didn't lose to them (two 2-2 ties). Had we only gotten past Lake St., we would've set up a rematch in the NCAAs. In the elves' Soph-Senior years, Cornell went 3-1-2 against them. The loss was the game in Burlington in '97 that Schafer pulled the stick-check trick. The Gutterson crowd was about ready to ride him out of town after that. We scored late in that PP to get within 6-4. CU made it 6-5 with the goalie pulled. The UVM lead had been 6-1 with 9 minutes left in the 2nd. [www.hockey.cornell.edu]

[Q] He was born one year too late -- he came back the year after the dwarves had left and went from about 50 points as their linemate to about 20 without them. [/Q]

Ruid, the Elves, and Tim Thomas were all Class of '97. For them to flame out in the first round of the NCAAs vs. Denver that year was very disappointing, considering they lost in 2OT in the Frozen Four the previous year.

Perrin has been playing in Finland, according to hockeydb.com

The most impressive thing about Juneau to me was that he completed an aeronautical engineering degree at RPI in 3 years. He did some grad work his 4th year of playing hockey. At least that's what I remember reading somewhere.

Yes, Juneau did complete his degree in three years and did grad work as a Senior. However, he also had some advanced placement credit due to the Quebec school system having a 13th grade (or something like that).

Rich Hovorka '96 wrote:

The most impressive thing about Juneau to me was that he completed an aeronautical engineering degree at RPI in 3 years. He did some grad work his 4th year of playing hockey. At least that's what I remember reading somewhere.

Post Edited (04-22-03 13:48)

[q]However, he also had some advanced placement credit due to the Quebec school system having a 13th grade (or something like that).[/q]

Ah, yes, Cegep ("say-jep". My Montreal friends have explained this to me repeatedly. It's like 12th and 13th grades, then you go to university (not college, mind you, university) for 3 years. Still, aeronautical engineering--not bad.

I used to call them the Rugrats ... and yes, they did do all sorts of showboating after goals ... but, after a while, I forgave them.

I'm giving away a whole paragraph of an upcoming column ... but ... best moment I remember is, '96 NCAA game against Lake Superior. The entire West was unconvinced those guys were any good (where have we heard that before) ...

So ... opening faceoff, Perrin gets it to St. Louis. St. Louis comes over the blue line, does a drop pass between his legs to himself, shuffles it across with his skate, behind his back, to his stick, and unloads about a 92 MPH blast that missed the crossbar by 2 inches.

It was a jaw-dropping move, and shot. And after that, everyone from the West shut the heck up.

I was broadcasting a game for Princeton when St. Louis scored (almost) a shorthanded hat trick. He had two shorties - and one came just as a penalty ended. One, he was in the box, it was a 5-on-3 - he came out to make it a 5-on-4, took a pass at center ice, and went in alone for a breakaway goal.

My 4 years at Princeton coincided with their 4 years. Princeton was 0-7 against them until the last meeting of the 1996-97 regular season. Princeton beat them up in Gutterson. So, they met in the playoffs, and Princeton won 2-of-3 in a stunner. This was actually my first year learning about PWR - because I remember trying to convince the Vermont media that they had made the NCAAs regardless of their early ECAC exit.

J.C. Ruid was indeed class of '97, and he was on their line for the last two seasons.

That Vermont team was never deep - that was the knock. But when you had a top line and a goalie that was THAT good, it didn't matter. The defensemen were pretty good. But in '96-97, they lost a couple key role players up front. Guys who were just muckers and kept the other teams at bay.

But they opened the 1996-97 season like a house of fire. There was a game in October at Boston University - it was absolutely the hottest ticket in town. Tons of media there. Vermont beat BU - Thomas played awesome. Vermont was ranked No. 1. But doubt started to creep in after that. It seemed as though the ECAC figured them out a bit. They lost a bunch of league games - rallied in mid-season - but were a disappointment in the postseason.

They were never really in that Denver game in the 1997 NCAAs. Then it was all over.

Whenever I finally write that college hockey history book - St. Louis-Perrin are getting a chapter.

Mikko Ollila did something similar at Clarkson a few years ago...undergrad degree in 3 years and finished his Masters in his 4th. Not sure if he brought "credits" from Finland with him.

In many ways Todd White and St. Louis are cut from the same bolt of cloth...and you could see that as ECAC players. Both are undersized with Todd being a bit bigger and stronger, St. Louis faster and flashier.

Both are smart players, hard workers, have an intense desire to win, and play bigger than their size indicates. Characteristics you just cannot coach.

Many folks never believed the experts who said they were both too small to play in the NHL. I know White was not drafted by anyone....was Martin?

Rich Stamboulian wrote:
Many folks never believed the experts who said they were both too small to play in the NHL. I know White was not drafted by anyone....was Martin?

No. He was signed by Calgary as a Free Agent in '98 and then by TB in 2000.

This article talks about how he wasn't taken in the '97 draft. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he would've been eligible for the draft. Aren't college players only eligible as 18 or 19 year olds?
[www.usatoday.com]
[Q]Despite a stellar college career at Vermont where he holds the school's assists and scoring records, no team took a chance on St. Louis in nine rounds that produced 246 draft picks in 1997. At least eight first-rounders (Michel Riesen, Michael Holmqvist, Matt Zultek, Ty Jones, Daniel Tkaczuk, Stefan Cherneski, Nikos Tselios, Kevin Grimes) from that draft aren't in the NHL today.[/Q]

St. Louis was at least 23 when the 1997 draft happened. Not eligible whatsoever.

Nobody even wanted him out of college. He actually signed first as a free agent with Cleveland of the IHL, along with Perrin, together. St. Louis then got signed by Calgary after that first year, and was sent to Saint John of the AHL. He tore up the AHL - but Calgary never gave him more than a cup of coffee.

Tampa took a shot - but even they weren't playing him a lot at first. He basically told their coach - look, play me on the top line and on PP, and I'll score. And he did.

Todd White had the same issue. He was the leading rookie scorer in the IHL in 1997-98, then got some time with the Blackhawks before he was traded to Philadelphia midseason in 1999-2000. If you combined his stats, he'd have led all the Triple-A level minor leagues in scoring that year. But Bob Clarke let him walk as a free agent - and he signed with Ottawa. Again, he was in the minors at first - but did well - then played great in the playoffs his first year there, but had a terrible training camp the next summer. So he was sent down.

He finally stuck for good early last season.



Post Edited (04-22-03 15:58)

[Q]Yes, Juneau did complete his degree in three years and did grad work as a Senior. However, he also had some advanced placement credit due to the Quebec school system having a 13th grade (or something like that).[/Q]

But Juneau was also alleged to have learned English while at RIP in addition to his engineering and on ice accomplishments. Does anyone know if the language barrier was a fact?

[Q]I used to call them the Rugrats ... and yes, they did do all sorts of showboating after goals ... but, after a while, I forgave them.[/Q]

I moved to Vermont during the peak Perrin-St.Louis-Thomas years. It's this showboating and the barrage of local media coverage just drooling over the trio that got me to hate the Vermont hockey team so much. But Cornell still came away with the hardware.

I've enjoyed watching St. Louis in the pros. You have to respect that kind of talent. I still can't stand Thomas and it kills me that he's playing for the Bruins, "my" NHL team. I'm not convinced that he's THAT good.

BTW, even the Vermont radio guys mentioned that their grandmothers could have put up Ruid's numbers if they were on that line.

Richard Stott '70 wrote:
That line of St. Louis-Perrin and whoever else was with them was clearly one of the best lines in ECAC history.

St. Louis - Perrin - whoever is the only line that compares to Kariya - Selanne - whoever in the star - star - scrub department, IMO.

Ever hear of Kurri-Gretzky-whoever?

I saw whoever play and he was just plain sick.

Who's this Gretzky fellow they put him with?

According to various newpaper articles which I have read, Juneau originally lived in the Troy area with a French-Canadian expatriate family in order to learn English. Despite that, he started off poorly academically at RPI due to not being able to understand lectures. This was apparently quickly remedied.

ursaminor wrote:

According to various newpaper articles which I have read, Juneau originally lived in the Troy area with a French-Canadian expatriate family in order to learn English. Despite that, he started off poorly academically at RPI due to not being able to understand lectures. This was apparently quickly remedied.

I seem to recall the rumor that he had a 3.9 in aeronautical engineering.



Post Edited (04-23-03 11:11)

Here's an article comparing St. Louis and Madden of the Devils. If the guy really wanted to make it more meaningful, he could have talked about White....also an undrafted College star and smaller than Madden.

[www.bergen.com]

The story about the latter getting to the Devils is that they were scouting Brendan Morrison at Michigan...who did win the Hobey that year...and actually liked Madden just as much. So they signed them both.

Now Morrison's Canucks advance to play Minnesota...with Clarkson's Willie Mitchell, who played very well against Colorado. Mitchell also faces his old college coach, Mark Morris, who is with the Canucks.

Small world in many regards...

I think he played for Brom or Darmouth. I forget which. Some cupcake team...

Adam,

Just to clarify. If White had a terrible training camp and was sent down, it would have had to have been in his first season with Ottawa, 2000-01, when he spent most of the year in the IHL and played in the NHL playoffs after only a small # of RS games with Ottawa.

He was not sent down last year, his second year, at all...he played the whole season with the Senators and had 50 points. This year he improved to 60 points.

Like St. Louis, he just needed the right organization to give him a chance. Apparantly, Bill Barber of the Flyers org liked Todd, but Clarkie loves big centers and called White "too small" for the NHL. So they meet again in the playoffs!

Rich,

You are correct. I had my years slightly mixed up. He was signed by Ottawa with the intention of him being in the NHL. They really liked him, he was a local guy, etc... But he had a poor training camp and was sent to Grand Rapids.

Late in the season, he got a chance to come up because of injuries, and was impressive. So they gave him another shot the next year, and he never looked back.

As for Barber - yes, he liked him. I know that, because I was with them when White played for Barber, and subsequently, when Barber was an assistant with the Flyers. But I won't get into the whole Barber-Clarke thing here.

CUlater '89 wrote:

Ever hear of Kurri-Gretzky-whoever?

Very few players on those Oilers teams qualified as "whoever".

Yes, Juneau did complete his degree in three years and did grad work as a Senior. However, he also had some advanced placement credit due to the Quebec school system having a 13th grade (or something like that).

This whole thing was apparently 1% truth, 49% hype, and 50% telephone. I used to dutifully repeat and be impressed by this as well, and then an RPI guy back-channeled me to in effect inform me that the closest Juneau ever got to aeronatics was flying coach, and if he ever had a hand in design he would have been lucky to sharpen the correct end of the pencil.

Who knows? It's a great story, and in related news BC was invited to join the Ivies but turned it down.

What makes you think your source is reliable and knowledgeable on this point, Greg? Juneau does have a pilot's license. And friends of mine at RPI that knew him when he was a student have never said anything to me to contradict those stories (and they are close to the hockey program, so they would know).

As I said, "who knows?" The answer to which is: Juneau himself and maybe nobody else.

My source seemed reliable and close to the program as well. As far as first hand information goes, it's a complete wash: Juneau may be winding down his career waiting for his Nobel Prize, or he have occupied the Dubya Endowed Chair, er, Couch. Doesn't particularly matter -- just figured I'd counter one unsubstantiated hockey rumor with another.

Josh Herman '99 wrote:

CUlater '89 wrote:

Ever hear of Kurri-Gretzky-whoever?

Very few players on those Oilers teams qualified as "whoever".

Can I get in my late vote for Oates-Neeley-whoever?

I tend to put stock in what Ralph B says about it...tht's earlier in this thread.

Good story...

[www.nhl.com]

[www.cbc.ca]

*rotflmao*

Good stuff.