New TBRW Feature: Complete Scoring List

I've put up the full year by year scoring records for every Cornell player since 1957.

No doubt there will be MANY errors, but I hope everybody finds this a useful and entertaining resource.

Coming eventually: goaltending records.

Go to TBRW? -- link on the left panel of eLF, or [spiritone.com]

On TBRW, click the Players link on the left panel.

Select Complete Scoring from the Players index.

Have fun, and forward all corrections and comments to kepler@spiritone.com

Known issues:

(1) Yes, the field name is currently PI and not PIM.

bump

If the list of Cornell's record against each school we've ever played is on TBRW? anywhere, I haven't been able to find it. Pointers anyone?

> If the list of Cornell's record against each school we've ever played is on TBRW? anywhere, I haven't been able to find it. Pointers anyone?

There is a season-by-season list on the TBRW? Games link, and there are team-by-team records on TBRW's Hitchhiker's pages. Note that these disagree in certain places with the official Cornell totals. I'm willing to amend the records, but only if somebody can tell me where there are extra games. Note that my team-by-team lists are built from the official Cornell season records, so the disrepancy is in their records... I'm just the messanger.

Thanks again for keeping this up. It's a great reference.

You're welcome. And I do know an index will make it more useful, and that's coming soon -- I'll probably put it up during this weekend's games.

Is there someplace on TBRW or slack.net that discusses the ECAC tiebreakers, what the order is, what the inconsistencies are, etc? E.g. if two teams are tied for 5th and 6th place, and they are tied head-to-head, do the top-5 criteria become top-4 or top-6? (Yes, I realize that it doesn't matter for record vs. top 5, but it could for goal differential vs. top 5). What if there's a tie for 5th and 6th and for 10th and 11th - which tie do they break first? Do they break the ties to determine the top 5 teams before deciding which teams to use for top 5 in tiebreakers amongst other teams? Anyway, just curious if there were more guidelines out there about how the league actually implements the criteria.

There are guidelines, which used to be on the ECAC website (back in the ECAC HockeyNet days). I saved a copy of it, although I supposed posting it back on the web myself would be a copyright no-no. I think I asked the people who run the current page to put it back. Anyway, there were four basic clarifications, which I'll paraphrase here:

1) For multiple team ties, as soon as you reach a stage where the tie is broken, you take the top team (or teams if they're still tied at the top) off and then start over on the rest of the teams.

2) If you need to use top 5 anything on a tie that spans 5th and 6th place, you consider only records against teams above the tie. (Of course, it doesn't matter whether you include teams in the tie or not, since you have to be tied in head-to-head record (or goal differential as appropriate) to even get to the top 5 tiebreaker. The same goes for ties involving 10th and 11th place which come down to a top ten tiebreaker.

3) Break the ties needed to determine the top 5 and top 10 first, before trying to break any other ties. (Duh.)

4) If the dreaded infinite loop arises (tie spanning 5th and 6th place requires top 10 and tie spanning 10th and 11th place requires top 5), apply the following tiebreakers in the following order until something shakes loose, then start over from head-to-head:
a) break the 10th place tie using record vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 5th place
b) break the 5th place tie using record vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 10th place
c) break the 10th place tie using record vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 10th place
d) break the 5th place tie using head-to-head goal differential
e) break the 10th place tie using head-to-head goal differential
f) break the 5th place tie using goal differential vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 5th place
g) break the 10th place tie using goal differential vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 5th place
h) break the 5th place tie using goal differential vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 10th place
i) break the 10th place tie using goal differential vs the top teams, up to and including all the teams tied for 10th place

Believe it or not, all these guidelines are implemented in the ECAC Playoff Possibilties Script from TBRW? and Joe Schlobotnik's Sports Machine, indexed at [slack.net] or directly at [slack.net]

> Believe it or not, all these guidelines are implemented in the ECAC Playoff Possibilties Script from TBRW? and Joe Schlobotnik's Sports Machine

We believe it, John. We believe it....

> For multiple team ties, as soon as you reach a stage where the tie is broken, you take the top team (or teams if they're still tied at the top) off and then start over on the rest of the teams.

Say teams A, B, and C are tied. Resolution of the 3 way tie yields the ordering A, B, C. Does the rule above mean that, after awarding A the top spot, you then re-resolve the B, C tie, even though they are already ordered according to the same criterion that puts A first among them?

That seems like bad logic (for them, not you).

Greg, that's exactly how it's done, and it does make sense if your aim is not to award a team a higher seed in a three-way tie than they would have gotten in a two-way tie.

For example, suppose A and B are tied and have split their two games, but A has a better record against the top 5 than B does. Obviously, A gets the higher seed. But now, supposing C is also tied with A and B, having swept A but split with B. The head-to-head tiebreaker then becomes:

A 1-3
B 2-2
C 3-1

C gets the highest seed, but if you don't start over again with A and B, B winds up with the higher remaining seed -- despite A winning the tiebreaker between just the two of them.

It's not a perfect system (what, the ECAC tiebreakers aren't perfect??) but that's why they do it that way. I believe most, if not all, of the other conferences apply the three-way tiebreaker the same way. (Not that this is any sort of recommendation, but the NFL tiebreaking system does "three-ways" this way as well)

It's in the hitchiker section - at least for ECAC teams. I haven't seen it for any out-of-conference foes. Just click on each team and there's a link from there.

Sully

I was vaguely remembering a list that went:

Darmouth 124-23-3
Yale 103-100-12
Brown 200-40-2
etc
etc
etc
etc

all on one page. Maybe I halucinated it...

[www.hockey.cornell.edu]

Current through '99-'00

Thanks. that's exactly what I was looking for.

I have added an index.

Note that the ECAC and NFL multi-team tiebreakers do differ in one way, which is best illustrated by an example. Suppose A, B, C, and D are all tied for fourth and in the first tie-breaker, A and B are ahead of C and D, but even with each other. The ECAC tiebreaker system then breaks the A and B tie with the two-team tie-breaker to assign fourth and fifth place, and then has a go at C and D, who are tied for sixth. The NFL would use the two-team tie-breaker to decide who is in fourth place, A or B, then (assuming A wins that tiebreaker) throw B back into a three-way tie for fifth with C and D and apply the three-team tie-breaker there.