Red Cast Really Sucks

At the end of the third period last night the Union at Yale game was tied at 2-2. My son posted a Facebook link to the game that was streaming through YouTube. I was not able to watch the OT as I was not home (and I don't think the game streams for free to mobile devices). So in addition to RPI and QPac we now have the luxury of watching away games at Yale for free.

Yale's YouTube "Yale Campus" channel seems great. And while the video quality of the game isn't up to RPI/BillHoward standards, it is very accessible because of the YouTube interface. I was going to post this in a new link but it belongs here. Red Cast sucks but so do we for charging for access.

Yale Campus Channel

marty
At the end of the third period last night the Union at Yale game was tied at 2-2. My son posted a Facebook link to the game that was streaming through YouTube. I was not able to watch the OT as I was not home (and I don't think the game streams for free to mobile devices). So in addition to RPI and QPac we now have the luxury of watching away games at Yale for free.

Yale's YouTube "Yale Campus" channel seems great. And while the video quality of the game isn't up to RPI/BillHoward standards, it is very accessible because of the YouTube interface. I was going to post this in a new link but it belongs here. Red Cast sucks but so do we for charging for access.

Yale Campus Channel

I wouldn't complain about Redcast charging money if it were anywhere near this quality.

This is better than SD (360p vs. 480i), but even without being HD it's highly watchable: it's smooth and not at all blocky. And, most importantly, it just works. No silly logging in; no slow-ass Flash listings page; I'm guessing since it's Youtube the archives are available immediately (meaning you can also pause a live stream); and because it's Youtube it already works with everything: my tablet and phone both play these videos and they look great.

Kyle Rose

marty
At the end of the third period last night the Union at Yale game was tied at 2-2. My son posted a Facebook link to the game that was streaming through YouTube. I was not able to watch the OT as I was not home (and I don't think the game streams for free to mobile devices). So in addition to RPI and QPac we now have the luxury of watching away games at Yale for free.

Yale's YouTube "Yale Campus" channel seems great. And while the video quality of the game isn't up to RPI/BillHoward standards, it is very accessible because of the YouTube interface. I was going to post this in a new link but it belongs here. Red Cast sucks but so do we for charging for access.

Yale Campus Channel

I wouldn't complain about Redcast charging money if it were anywhere near this quality.

This is better than SD (360p vs. 480i), but even without being HD it's highly watchable: it's smooth and not at all blocky. And, most importantly, it just works. No silly logging in; no slow-ass Flash listings page; I'm guessing since it's Youtube the archives are available immediately (meaning you can also pause a live stream); and because it's Youtube it already works with everything: my tablet and phone both play these videos and they look great.

Even better than archiving - you can pause and back up the stream to get your own instant replay, then hit the "live" button to catch up. What will they think of next?

To be honest, I saw the end of the Colgate game on redcast on my phone in the middle of Boston common. It could not have been higher quality, and I could clearly hear Arthur and the fans. So when they get it right, it's totally worth it.

Nice that the Yale Campus Channel incorporates sports alongside other Yale videos, like it's just one more student activity. Still waiting on the YCC video, The Glory That Is New Haven.

[youtu.be]

rmandel
[youtu.be]

Cornell can put up all the ridiculous recruiting videos they want, as long as they get hockey video working like we know it should. This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'll take choice D: All of the above. Impossible, you say? RedCast has fundamentally altered my sense of what is and isn't possible.

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

I heard reports it was better. Those reports were mistaken.

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

Why do people keep coming back to the NHL even though we know that they'll lose a season every time they go to collective bargaining? If you want it to get better you have to vote with your wallet, but most of us, being hardcore Cornell Hockey fans simply aren't willing keep up with the team through minimal means such as box scores and recaps on the ECACHockey.com

css228

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

Why do people keep coming back to the NHL even though we know that they'll lose a season every time they go to collective bargaining? If you want it to get better you have to vote with your wallet, but most of us, being hardcore Cornell Hockey fans simply aren't willing keep up with the team through minimal means such as box scores and recaps on the ECACHockey.com

Most of our opponents have free audio feeds.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

I heard reports it was better. Those reports were mistaken.

As did I. And regardless of the quality, they have close to a monopoly on being able to watch Cornell hockey online.

smcg

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

I heard reports it was better. Those reports were mistaken.

As did I. And regardless of the quality, they have close to a monopoly on being able to watch Cornell hockey home games online.

FYP.

For once, I can't wait until @Ylae.

Sometimes people who mean well get swamped with other things. In the matrix of important vs. unimportant and time critical vs. not time critical, this one is in the same quadrant as buying life insurance: It's important but you don't really have to do it today or tomorrow. Then all of a sudden a year has gone by and then two years.

Jordan 04
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

It's like health care. You buy the best you can afford, that doesn't mean you don't want it to be better.

1,000 Cornell alumni will get a chance to see and compare Redcast in a month. The annual CALC (Cornell alumni leaders) conference will be in Boston the weekend of Jan. 18-19 and Saturday evening is a Big Red tailgate (2012 event above) at the Boston Marriott Copley Place with three Cornell events projected onto big screens:

* Cornell at RPI men's hockey. Video by RPI, the gold standard as we know it.
* Columbia at Cornell men's basketball. Video by NBC sports.
* Clarkson at Cornell women's hockey. Video by Redcast.

It will be interesting to see how close the RPI webcast comes to broadcast TV and how the Redcast feed from Lynah fares.

It may be worth coming to as a way to see the games free, once you pay to get in. [www.alumni.cornell.edu]

Trotsky

Jordan 04
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

It's like health care. You buy the best you can afford, that doesn't mean you don't want it to be better.

Even supporters of Obamacare can see a one-liner building quickly here. Maybe have a New Yorker style contest to come up with and then vote on the three best lines.

billhoward

Trotsky

Jordan 04
Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

It's like health care. You buy the best you can afford, that doesn't mean you don't want it to be better.

Even supporters of Obamacare can see a one-liner building quickly here. Maybe have a New Yorker style contest to come up with and then vote on the three best lines.

You're right, I should have said "it's like hookers."

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

No, they are perfect and the definition of Goodness. The suffering that you go through to watch CU haockey is all part of a master plan that we simply cannot comprehend. Glory to RedCast.

Roy 82

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

No, they are perfect and the definition of Goodness. The suffering that you go through to watch CU haockey is all part of a master plan that we simply cannot comprehend. Glory to RedCast.

I know, you were just trying to mimic the Redcast. Or was it a poor Boston accent.

Jim Hyla

Roy 82

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

No, they are perfect and the definition of Goodness. The suffering that you go through to watch CU haockey is all part of a master plan that we simply cannot comprehend. Glory to RedCast.

I know, you were just trying to mimic the Redcast. Or was it a poor Boston accent.

I wish I were. But, as you can see, my humor is not that sophisticated. Just a typo from an imperfect being with diminishing eyesight.

Kyle Rose

Jordan 04

jtn27

Trotsky

Kyle Rose
This is not rocket science: as Yale has shown, this is a solved problem.

This is really the heart of the situation. The remaining question is whether RedCast (and perhaps, by extension, Cornell) is stupid, crazy or malevolent.

Stupid: They are doing the best they can, they're just incompetent.

Crazy: They sincerely don't know they suck; they actually think the product meets user requirements.

Malevolent: They don't care. Every dollar clawed from the users is pure profit when effort is zero.

I'm not sure if that's malevolence, so much as apathy. If people are paying for it at a relatively constant rate, why bother trying to improve it?

Yeah, I don't understand why everyone here who complains about a shitty product year after year keeps purchasing it.

I heard reports it was better. Those reports were mistaken.

I've skimmed parts of this thread, so maybe someone has already pointed this out, but it looks like the user controls the quality setting. I'm just noticing this now as I watch the replay of the St. Lawrence game that there's a slider on the control panel right below the volume slider. I had assumed that quality would be self adjusting and optimize based on my download speed, but it looks like sliding the bar yourself dictates the quality.

JasonN95
I've skimmed parts of this thread, so maybe someone has already pointed this out, but it looks like the user controls the quality setting. I'm just noticing this now as I watch the replay of the St. Lawrence game that there's a slider on the control panel right below the volume slider. I had assumed that quality would be self adjusting and optimize based on my download speed, but it looks like sliding the bar yourself dictates the quality.

The user interface has changed, for the better, since I last watched a Redcast archive. You can also right click to pick your stream quality or choose automatic selection.

In addition, the stream quality of the archives has improved. The archives max out at 480p/1167 kbps. That is crystal clear, and it's far superior to what was available in previous years. Because of the equipment upgrades, we now have a first-rate source video.

The next question is whether that high-quality video can be sent to end users when hundreds of people are trying to watch live feeds simultaneously. This is where Redcast has fallen short of expectations during most of the home games this fall.

Acquiring the bandwidth to guarantee a high-quality feed to all end users during a popular live webcast isn't cheap. I believe this is why Cornell Athletics loses money on Redcast.

Fortunately, YouTube is looking to offer a lot more live programming. Last month, YouTube signed a deal with the NBA to broadcast d-league games. The d-league has its own YouTube channel.

Based on what I have learned from the producer of Yale men's hockey games, Yale's deal with YouTube provides Yale with free access to YouTube streaming with both entities splitting ad revenue, if any. (Yale isn't obliged to show commercials on its programming.) This contract structure is consistent with what I have heard from a friend at Google regarding YouTube's plan to show many more live streams.

YouTube might be the model that provides us with a streaming agreement across ECAC Hockey. Leaguewide streaming has been something many of us have longed for, and last spring Phil Fibiger even emailed ADs and coaches around the league about the possibility of the conference streaming all games with the quality of the RPI.tv webcasts.

The NorthEast Conference has done leaguewide streaming this season, albeit with a different streaming service and not at RPI.tv quality. The NEC agreement is how Quinnipiac began showing free webcasts of hockey games.

Of course, if all or most ECAC schools start streaming games on YouTube (I don't know of Q has to show its games on NEC Front Row), it would not guarantee high-quality feeds like RPI.tv's. However, the YouTube model would give schools free access to the bandwidth needed to show high-definition feeds. Hopefully, eliminating that cost would encourage more schools to upgrade its video equipment like Cornell did last summer.

At the very least, getting most ECAC Hockey games on YouTube would save many of us a good chunk of change. And I wouldn't mind that either.

Anybody know why the audio Redcasts against Denver are not showing up as upcoming broadcasts?

Roy 82
Anybody know why the audio Redcasts against Denver are not showing up as upcoming broadcasts?

Strange. Game preview at cornellbigred.com makes no mention of Redcasts. Hockey schedule has an "Audio" link that leads to Redcasts but no mention of the games there. WHCU is said to be doing radio. Another Redcasts success story?

There is audio tonight but the links sometimes don't go active until just before game time. Edit: the link is up, as is one for Saturday's audio coverage.

So here are the 2 emails I received from Sidearm Streaming Support:

Hello James,

We apologize for any inconvenience, but Cornell is not streaming any games on their All Access site today. The links on Cornell's pages are created by the school, and they direct you to the All Access page even if there is no game scheduled for streaming on that day. If you have any other questions or concerns, feel free to let us know.

Best,

at 7:25 PM

Hello James,

Cornell has just updated their REDCast page and have included radio coverage of the Men's Hockey game at Denver today. Feel free to follow the game at cornellbigred.com/showcase.

Best,

at 7:40 PM

The audio is tinny, but it's there.

No audio for Yale game tonight, as of 7:24 pm

flyersgolf
No audio for Yale game tonight, as of 7:24 pm

Watch Yale's free video.

Redcast video stream for the Brown game shows some improvement and thank goodness the English language has the word "marginal" to qualify them. The video quality is better that a year or two ago. There were still video freezes, many audio dropouts of my feed, the single camera that still can be obscured by fans standing, and no instant replay. It feels like standard-def analog TV now. That's something.

If not for the fans who can't get to Lynah, I hope this is improved for the parents of players watching from afar and for the potential recruits. The video is clear enough that you can see every seat filled. I noticed two seats go empty in the corner about two rows up (popcorn run ... during the game?) and thought, I would *love* to be in those seats.

I didn't have any video freezes. There are still those mysterious moments when Jason drops the mic and stalks off stage.

Trotsky
I didn't have any video freezes. There are still those mysterious moments when Jason drops the mic and stalks off stage.

And we didn't get the commericals during the Brown game. I had a friend visiting and was streaming the audio and she commented on the periodic spots of dead air and wondered if I needed to refresh the browswer. She didn't mind having dinner with Cornell hockey in the background, but then again, I used to drag her to bars so that we would have enough people to get a tv with sound for the "Lafayette, IN watch parties".

Rita

Trotsky
I didn't have any video freezes. There are still those mysterious moments when Jason drops the mic and stalks off stage.

And we didn't get the commericals during the Brown game. I had a friend visiting and was streaming the audio and she commented on the periodic spots of dead air and wondered if I needed to refresh the browswer. She didn't mind having dinner with Cornell hockey in the background, but then again, I used to drag her to bars so that we would have enough people to get a tv with sound for the "Lafayette, IN watch parties".

The wrestling feed Saturday had audio of the commercials and then went silent during the matches.

Weder

Rita

Trotsky
I didn't have any video freezes. There are still those mysterious moments when Jason drops the mic and stalks off stage.

And we didn't get the commericals during the Brown game. I had a friend visiting and was streaming the audio and she commented on the periodic spots of dead air and wondered if I needed to refresh the browswer. She didn't mind having dinner with Cornell hockey in the background, but then again, I used to drag her to bars so that we would have enough people to get a tv with sound for the "Lafayette, IN watch parties".

The wrestling feed Saturday had audio of the commercials and then went silent during the matches.

Those Pepsi Throwbacks aren't going to flack themselves.

Trotsky

Weder

Rita

Trotsky
I didn't have any video freezes. There are still those mysterious moments when Jason drops the mic and stalks off stage.

And we didn't get the commericals during the Brown game. I had a friend visiting and was streaming the audio and she commented on the periodic spots of dead air and wondered if I needed to refresh the browswer. She didn't mind having dinner with Cornell hockey in the background, but then again, I used to drag her to bars so that we would have enough people to get a tv with sound for the "Lafayette, IN watch parties".

The wrestling feed Saturday had audio of the commercials and then went silent during the matches.

Those Pepsi Throwbacks aren't going to flack themselves.

Drifting, are Throwbacks good to drink? I am partial to Mexican Coke, but haven't tried the Pepsi product. (Also +1 for Sierra Mist and others with cane sugar.)

I have not bothered to list all the screw ups from this service the last few games. Video cutting out multiple times, no HD etc. But tonight the service cut out at the beginning of the 3rd and I could not get back on. RedCast is dead, like the server went down. Well I guess I will catch up on Shameless from last week.

flyersgolf
I not bothered to list all the screw ups from this service the last few games. Video cutting out multiple times, no HD etc. But tonight the service cut out at the beginning of the 3rd and I could not get back on. RedCast is dead, like the server went down. Well I guess I will catch up on Shameless from last week.

I'm still on, but at least I know not to disconnect or I might wind up unable to get back on. Though with the way this game is going, that might be a blessing...

Redcast perfect for me. Nice goal, down 2 with 2 minutes, just pulled Iles, called TO and New Cornell Fight Song.

Let's see what we can do...

AAAAAAND Dags gives it away in front of an empty goal.

Yay.

BMac

Let's see what we can do...

nothing.

I was going to say, best broadcast since Colorado College, looked great on the big screen. Then the 3rd period was a disaster, typical redcast. Losing picture, having to log on 3 times, voice and video out of sequence. Is this because more users were on in the 3rd period? Also not sure what camera operator was focusing on, should follow the puck.

flyersgolf
Also not sure what camera operator was focusing on, should follow the puck.

Yeah, I was a bit confused as to whether the camera operator was watching the game or being distracted by watching Up in Smoke on his or her smartphone. Sloooooooow panning...

Scersk '97

flyersgolf
Also not sure what camera operator was focusing on, should follow the puck.

Yeah, I was a bit confused as to whether the camera operator was watching the game or being distracted by watching Up in Smoke on his or her smartphone. Sloooooooow panning...

Fluid pan head would help. If they've got one already, then the rule has to be: Only study for exams between periods.

billhoward

Scersk '97

flyersgolf
Also not sure what camera operator was focusing on, should follow the puck.

Yeah, I was a bit confused as to whether the camera operator was watching the game or being distracted by watching Up in Smoke on his or her smartphone. Sloooooooow panning...

Fluid pan head would help. If they've got one already, then the rule has to be: Only study for exams between periods.

It doesn't help if the operator doesn't pan. Random tech is not the solution to everything Bill.

So, how was the Redcast? The video replay on the ECAC site looked quite good. Tough that the intro pic shows Gotovets, who didn't play.

RedCast was completely acceptable this weekend. It started on time and didn't drop. The have managed my expectations really well that this is considered a solid A.

Trotsky
RedCast was completely acceptable this weekend. It started on time and didn't drop. The have managed my expectations really well that this is considered a solid A.

Any grading of A within a thread title including the word "sucks" has to be suspect.

This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

Rita

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

I am guessing that it is.

ursusminor

Rita

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

I am guessing that it is.

[rpitv.org]

ursusminor

ursusminor

Rita

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

I am guessing that it is.

[rpitv.org]

Excellent. I hope they bring their toys (they don't want to depend on the Redcast cables). And we get Digit too. Bonus.

ursusminor

ursusminor

Rita

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

I am guessing that it is.

[rpitv.org]

The RedCast crew had the right of first refusal but declined to do the broadcast due to prior commitments.

marty

ursusminor

ursusminor

Rita

mackek2

Chris '03
This will be a fun comparison:

[static.psbin.com]

Guess who the ECAC has hired to shoot it?

I'm guessing NOT the RPI.tv video team.

I am guessing that it is.

[rpitv.org]

The RedCast crew had the right of first refusal but declined to do the broadcast due to prior commitments.

Just finished watching the Womens game. The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

I think the RPI crew got to experience the "fun and trials" of broadcasting from Lynah. The 3rd period of the Clarkson-Harvard game started with only Digit on air. The play-by-play guy's (Perry somebody) mike went dead. They got his mike up, but then lost Digit. Mid way through the 3rd, they got both back.

BTW, Harvard up 3-1. 3:42 left, Clarkson has pulled their goalie.

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

Thomas Larson

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

$100 seems reasonable to me, though I'm not trying to live on a student's budget. Then again, the students are at the games.

Thomas Larson

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

Is this the business model? Provide a shit product year after year after year for $30-$40, so you can eventually turn around and extort 2x, 3x, etc for a decent product? I don't know whats involved is these webcasts, but is there really a great marginal cost to what RPI produces vs. Redcast?

As for pricing, how about we start at free, since most folks have paid hundreds of dollars over the years and basically gotten nothing for their money?

The audio isn't nothing, and that's what we have really paid for -- access to the audio stream. The video for whatever reason (lack of money for good equipment, lack of technical competence, actual fraud by Redcast and whatever insider they paid off for the rights, etc) has ever been and remains shit, however.

Trotsky
The audio isn't nothing, and that's what we have really paid for -- access to the audio stream.

I will not pay for audio. Come on: this is 2013.

And FWIW I'm back off RedCast until something dramatic changes. IMO, Yale has set the standard with their Youtube-based offering: it works on every device that supports Youtube and it looks great.

Kyle Rose

Trotsky
The audio isn't nothing, and that's what we have really paid for -- access to the audio stream.

I will not pay for audio. Come on: this is 2013.

I am just a caveman, and your magical devices that allow me to see or hear hockey without going to it frighten and confuse me. I have never gotten over the whole wonderful idea.

Thomas Larson

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

I'm willing to pay what fans currently shell out for the games at Yale and RPI.

Trotsky
The audio isn't nothing, and that's what we have really paid for -- access to the audio stream.

If they advertise video, then we're paying for video. (That's the royal we, since I haven't given them my money in a few years because of the quality issues. I'm surprised so many keep forking over the fee year after year.)

Trotsky

Thomas Larson

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

$100 seems reasonable to me, though I'm not trying to live on a student's budget. Then again, the students are at the games.

I would probably pay $100 for Mens and Women's hockey. I would pay $200 for a season pass. Provided the quality was as good as the RPI product (I was very very happy with it). I did not renew my redcast subscription this year because of poor quality.

Towerroad

Trotsky

Thomas Larson

Trotsky

Towerroad
The RPI product is good, very good. If this was a hockey game the score would be RPI 6 Redcast 0. (thank heavens it is not)

Not surprised. Who do we have to blow to wake Cornell up to reality? Redcast is a Model T trying to compete in F-1.

Okay, serious answers now. Not hyperbole. How much would you ACTUALLY pay to get this quality video at our home games for a season? Current season package on Redcast is $40. Would you pay $80? $100? More?

$100 seems reasonable to me, though I'm not trying to live on a student's budget. Then again, the students are at the games.

I would probably pay $100 for Mens and Women's hockey. I would pay $200 for a season pass. Provided the quality was as good as the RPI product (I was very very happy with it). I did not renew my redcast subscription this year because of poor quality.

FWIW, I just sent an email to rpi.tv (rpitv@union.rpi.edu) thanking them for doing the games and praising them for the high quality video. Oh, I copied Andy Noel on it and asked why Cornell can't do this too? Not that I expect to get a response, but it is a Monday, and I wanted to do some griping (rather than wallowing). I hope the NC$$ contracts with RPI.TV for this Saturday's game.

It's odd that Noel, who has been quite good overall as AD, has so completely shat the bed on this, year after year. Maybe the wrestling stream is better.

Trotsky
It's odd that Noel, who has been quite good overall as AD, has so completely shat the bed on this, year after year. Maybe the wrestling stream is better.

I agree. Redcast as it is today, is an opportunity lost. I gave up on it after a few years of mediocracy. Here we have presumably loyal alums with enough disposable income to pay to stream Big Red Sports. I fail to understand why the Big Red Money Raising Machine is not tugging at our heartstrings during the intermissions. Alternatively there is advertising to be sold. Think of all the businesses that advertise in the Alumni Magazines.

I think what would be ideal to happen is one or two big time alums step in and say we'll help with an endowment, but make your athletic video setup like rpi/yale whomever and make it free. I get good will towards the university watching sport, I get ill will spending time screwing around with BS video feeds. Get it right, plug the hell out of it and generate a lot of fans of major and minor sports.

In terms of advertising I noticed in the UVA lax stream they cut to a full screen advertisement page between almost every whistle while maintaining the audio from the commentators.

Bahnstorm
In terms of advertising I noticed in the UVA stream they cut to a full screen advertisement page between almost every whistle while maintaining the audio from the commentators.

And, at least once, while play was on.

so people would pay $100 for redcast which us more than the season pass for NHL? to be honest paying $7-10 a game for an internet feed for a game that a ticket costs $18 is crazy.

In reality they need two priceing schemes. Season ticket holders should be able to get the feed for less since they already have paid once up front for a game they cant attend.

I think the fee they charge now limits the people who actually buy it when added to the quality. $5 is more a decent going rate per game. then give me some incentive to buy a season pass.

Some of us wouldn't pay $1 for an NHL season pass. The comparison is not relevant.

The question was, what would you pay?

Trotsky
Some of us wouldn't pay $1 for an NHL season pass. The comparison is not relevant.

The question was, what would you pay?

I will repeat myself. I'd pay what the Yale, QPac and RPI fans pay.

marty

Trotsky
Some of us wouldn't pay $1 for an NHL season pass. The comparison is not relevant.

The question was, what would you pay?

I will repeat myself. I'd pay what the Yale, QPac and RPI fans pay.

Why is that at all relevent? If someone came to you and said I will provide you with high quality video of Cornell sporting events for X dollars a season what would your X be. If it is $0 then so be it you clearly do not value the product. That make you a non customer.

At the end of the day it is a business decision. The users, and potential advertisers have to make this a good financial opportunity if you want it to happen. Don't hope for some alum to fund this, there are far more important priorities on campus.

FWIW campus priorities don't always dictate what gets funded with donor $ or what gets attention. It just takes engaged alumni pushing. This is a very good example:
[www.alumni.cornell.edu]

Its just a matter of getting the right people, who have the clout/$ to push buttons, excited about the project.

Towerroad

marty

Trotsky
Some of us wouldn't pay $1 for an NHL season pass. The comparison is not relevant.

The question was, what would you pay?

I will repeat myself. I'd pay what the Yale, QPac and RPI fans pay.

Why is that at all relevent? If someone came to you and said I will provide you with high quality video of Cornell sporting events for X dollars a season what would your X be. If it is $0 then so be it you clearly do not value the product. That make you a non customer.

At the end of the day it is a business decision. The users, and potential advertisers have to make this a good financial opportunity if you want it to happen. Don't hope for some alum to fund this, there are far more important priorities on campus.

Perception of what is a reasonable price often depends on existing prices of similar products. Certainly I have only minimal interest in watching RPI hockey when they aren't playing Cornell. But how much they charge influences my perception of what is reasonable to pay for Cornell hockey video. It affects my demand curve.

I just can't see paying a substantial portion of the price of a ticket for a video feed no matter what the quality. When the quality and reliability fall to Redcast levels I'm even less likely to do so. (The fact that on the West Coast I'm generally at work through half of the games makes it not even an option....)

I'm not expecting a rich alum to pay for hockey video. Though you may recall that it was alums from this board (or it's predecessor) o first paid for equipment to provide internet audio * so it's hardly unthinkable. If I were a rich alum (and not just an alum) I'd fund something like this long before I would pay for someone elses "far more important priorities".

* Technically, folks from the board pledged something like half the money and the boosters made up the difference.

KeithK

Towerroad

marty

Trotsky
Some of us wouldn't pay $1 for an NHL season pass. The comparison is not relevant.

The question was, what would you pay?

I will repeat myself. I'd pay what the Yale, QPac and RPI fans pay.

Why is that at all relevent? If someone came to you and said I will provide you with high quality video of Cornell sporting events for X dollars a season what would your X be. If it is $0 then so be it you clearly do not value the product. That make you a non customer.

At the end of the day it is a business decision. The users, and potential advertisers have to make this a good financial opportunity if you want it to happen. Don't hope for some alum to fund this, there are far more important priorities on campus.

Perception of what is a reasonable price often depends on existing prices of similar products. Certainly I have only minimal interest in watching RPI hockey when they aren't playing Cornell. But how much they charge influences my perception of what is reasonable to pay for Cornell hockey video. It affects my demand curve.

I just can't see paying a substantial portion of the price of a ticket for a video feed no matter what the quality. When the quality and reliability fall to Redcast levels I'm even less likely to do so. (The fact that on the West Coast I'm generally at work through half of the games makes it not even an option....)

I'm not expecting a rich alum to pay for hockey video. Though you may recall that it was alums from this board (or it's predecessor) o first paid for equipment to provide internet audio * so it's hardly unthinkable. If I were a rich alum (and not just an alum) I'd fund something like this long before I would pay for someone elses "far more important priorities".

* Technically, folks from the board pledged something like half the money and the boosters made up the difference.

But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

scoop85
But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

KeithK

scoop85
But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

That makes no sense. If I am raised in Norway and move to the Sudan, my personal experience of the unremarkableness of feeling cool has no effect on how much I will pay for air conditioning.

Trotsky

KeithK

scoop85
But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

That makes no sense. If I am raised in Norway and move to the Sudan, my personal experience of the unremarkableness of feeling cool has no effect on how much I will pay for air conditioning.

In fact it might increase it. If I didn't live in Syracuse, I'd certainly be willing to spend more, not less, to see a good product. To me in that situation the ticket price would be meaningless. If there was a rich alum who subsidized ticket prices, and then I moved away, I'd be willing to cough up to see the games on video. To me the price I'm willing to pay is determined by the fun I receive. Better broadcast, more fun, regardless of ticket price. After-all, if I lived in the Sudan, my "ticket price" to see a game live, would be substantial.

KeithK

scoop85
But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

The bottom line is that given your particular set of preferences the price you are willing to pay for Redcast or a good product like RPI's is $0.00. That is ok with me. That is what I am willing to pay to watch RPI sports. So, in both cases we are not customers or potential customers so our preferences don't count with the respective institutions.

The bottom line is that Cornell is a business. To offer a crappy product like Redcast or a good product like RPI's there has to be a business case that makes sense to the University. You can argue that good will will carry the day but in the end these sorts of products need to generate revenue. The classic business model is subscriptions and advertising. I am willing to pay for a good product, but no longer willing to pay for Redcast. It will take a number of people like me and some advertisers to make quality video a reality. There may not be enough of us to make the venture go.

BTW, I put the Womens games up on my 48 inch flat panel. Wow, the RPI product really is good and worth paying for. The play by play was better than Redcast as well.

Towerroad
The bottom line is that Cornell is a business.

Cornell is a trinity: a dream-crushing, soul-devouring juggernaut hockey program, a highly commendable socialist academic project, and a scabrous commercial real estate swindle that can eat a bag of dicks.

Isnt the real issue pretty simple
1) what is the actual cost of production
2) what quality can it be produced at
3) what is the demand
4) how much profit/loss will they stand
5) does the school really care

The answer to #1 is you could probably with some effort get the labor for almost free, we have shown that already. the equipment cost these days is pretty low. the place is already wired and cornell has huge bandwidth so that leaves whatever overhead cost to split the signal/insert ads which again companies do it for next to nothing on some web sites. How much time/effort doesd managing the production take? Again i think they could get volunteers for much of this as its valuable work experience for many fields.

for #2 the quality can be whatever they want it to be. there is not tech reason it cant be high quality and in reality its not really much more expensive to produce high quality than crap quality

for #3 how much of the demand is a function of #1 and #2. high cost/ bad quality lowers the demand. How much it lowers it is unknown as I dont think cornell has done any survey. Surveys that that could get done for free thru Cornell infrastructure already. Drop a question in the renewal docs, put a flyer in the SUN. post things on twitter/facebook and the athletic dept web pages.

#4 does it need to make a profit? can it stand to produce a small loss or even a big loss?

#5 from my conversations the school does not care, they provide some service and the ATh dept does not care enough to make it better or easier or cheaper. Until someone higher up the food chain pushes little will get done.

upprdeck
Isnt the real issue pretty simple
1) what is the actual cost of production
2) what quality can it be produced at
3) what is the demand
4) how much profit/loss will they stand
5) does the school really care

The answer to #1 is you could probably with some effort get the labor for almost free, we have shown that already. the equipment cost these days is pretty low. the place is already wired and cornell has huge bandwidth so that leaves whatever overhead cost to split the signal/insert ads which again companies do it for next to nothing on some web sites. How much time/effort doesd managing the production take? Again i think they could get volunteers for much of this as its valuable work experience for many fields.

for #2 the quality can be whatever they want it to be. there is not tech reason it cant be high quality and in reality its not really much more expensive to produce high quality than crap quality

for #3 how much of the demand is a function of #1 and #2. high cost/ bad quality lowers the demand. How much it lowers it is unknown as I dont think cornell has done any survey. Surveys that that could get done for free thru Cornell infrastructure already. Drop a question in the renewal docs, put a flyer in the SUN. post things on twitter/facebook and the athletic dept web pages.

#4 does it need to make a profit? can it stand to produce a small loss or even a big loss?

#5 from my conversations the school does not care, they provide some service and the ATh dept does not care enough to make it better or easier or cheaper. Until someone higher up the food chain pushes little will get done.

I suspect that #5 is the key and you are probably right.

Towerroad

KeithK

scoop85
But comparing the cost to purchase the video feed to the cost of a ticket only makes sense if actually attending the game is a realistic option.

That's your take. I get it and it's not unreasonable. But oftentimes our perception of value is influenced by other similar products. It doesn't matter that I'm in California and (mostly) can't attend Cornell game sin person. I still have the in person experience as a point of comparison for determining how much the video feed is worth.

The bottom line is that given your particular set of preferences the price you are willing to pay for Redcast or a good product like RPI's is $0.00. That is ok with me. That is what I am willing to pay to watch RPI sports. So, in both cases we are not customers or potential customers so our preferences don't count with the respective institutions.

The bottom line is that Cornell is a business. To offer a crappy product like Redcast or a good product like RPI's there has to be a business case that makes sense to the University. You can argue that good will will carry the day but in the end these sorts of products need to generate revenue. The classic business model is subscriptions and advertising. I am willing to pay for a good product, but no longer willing to pay for Redcast. It will take a number of people like me and some advertisers to make quality video a reality. There may not be enough of us to make the venture go.

BTW, I put the Womens games up on my 48 inch flat panel. Wow, the RPI product really is good and worth paying for. The play by play was better than Redcast as well.

At the risk of opening old sores, I'd like to point out that Cornell *had* a free video stream for men's ice hockey that offered more reliable video at a higher quality than the current Redcast offering about, oh, 8 years ago. Folks on this board (not me, I'll admit, as I'd already spent all of my meager graduate student spending money on season tickets) made some direct donations to help Age cover his costs. Given that the proof of concept for a free high-quality video stream was proven years ago, it shouldn't be too surprising that a fair number of people around these parts have decided that $0 is the right subscription price.

Where the comparison to the old Cornell hockey stream came apart was on full coverage - RedCast provides audio and video for a wide variety of sports, so in some sense subscription fees for the popular streams would subsidize video streaming for other sports with smaller audiences. Except, of course, that Yale is now able to provide streaming video across a wide variety of sports for free, at higher quality, and on a superior platform. Once again, the end user subscription price has been set at $0 by a direct competitor.

Cornell's AD might not have the alumni funding necessary to make the service free, but I'm pretty sure they could get it if they made a concerted effort to provide a quality product. They might not have the resources to coordinate a home-grown streaming video setup of sufficient quality to keep said alumni donors happy, but I'm sure they could get some leeway on the quality and consistency if the operation was primarily student-run. They might be stuck in a contract for a few more years with RedCast, but they'd have nobody but themselves to blame for that.

Paradoxically, some of the people who won't pay money for a stream might be more willing to make a voluntary donation to keep a decent video stream running (plus other things). I know I would - I hardly ever get to watch anything on the video stream, so paying for RedCast makes zero sense for me even if they can provide a quality product. But donating money to keep a free stream going, especially if it's student-run, seems a lot more worthwhile to me.

It's too bad we don't have a pool of talented and creative people who don't have jobs yet and are looking to build their skills and resumes.

Thanks for linking to this Touchdown initiative.

Can we get a page set up for Lynahcast?

Whom should I contact?

Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

billhoward
Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

Sidearm responds to me complaint by saying it's a school problem, and they will contact the school. Now we're just getting wall-to-wall ads.

Al DeFlorio

billhoward
Video feed from Yale hockey last night was outstanding ($10 gets you access to all 4 ECAC playoff games). Lax audio-only feed from Yale today sounds like an analog underseas transmission from overseas. The commercials, inserted at the station, are clear. Ouch.

Sidearm responds to me complaint by saying it's a school problem, and they will contact the school. Now we're just getting wall-to-wall ads.

But OMG unless this is a replay from 2011, there's a free - free! - video feed.

The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

Trotsky
The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

ncaa game ---> free

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
The women's game is up on Redcast and the video looks much better than usual.

Also, I am getting the feed despite not being logged in, so I assume this is free.

ncaa game ---> free

NCAA *women's* game ---> free

Redcast Highlights from QPac Game 2




Apologies for cross posting in Other Sports