Red Cast Really Sucks

Tonight (Darthmouth) is really really really really bad. Michigan vs. Notre Dame is very clear in High Def on NBC sports. When is Cornell and the ECAC going to wake up and get quality TV & streaming exposure. NBC is going to be broadcasting most of Notre Dame's ice hockey games as part of the deal to do continue to do Notre Dame football. That and Notre Dame moving to Hockey East made the deal to NBC a no brainer. Think that will help recruiting? I do not understand why there is not high def streaming available for PS3, ipad2...etc. Cornell is an elite school with computer and communications departs. Let the students produce and engineer the games in the best technology available.

Tonight the Red Cast it has worked best opening one window for video and another for radio, because the audio for the video is out of sync on the video channel. Yet the radio channel is in sync with the video, go figure.

But where else do you get to here the announcer humming and whistling the alma mater followed by a nice long yawn?

Tongiht (Harvard) we have no picture. They had all day to get ready for the broadcast.

Bemidji State vs Minnesota Women's Hockey on BTN in HD works nicely. Redcast doesn't work at all. What an f-in joke.

What? There's more demand for the Harvard game? What? At least radio works....

They say they are having technical difficulties. After last nights disaster you would think by game time everything would work witout a hitch.

So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

Edit: Apparently eLynah thinks the above message is SPAM. That's weird.

kaelistus
So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

Edit: Apparently eLynah thinks the above message is SPAM. That's weird.

This is their response to the complaint they have pathetic service... I think I will wait til the last game of the year and then ask for a full refund for poor service


We apologize for the inconvenience. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties and we are working with the school to resolve the issue. If you would like us to cancel and refund your subscription, please let us know.

SIDEARM Streaming Support

Now I don't feel as frustrated that my wife made dinner plans tonight

scoop85
Now I don't feel as frustrated that my wife made dinner plans tonight

Due to retinal surgery (Friday) I am under orders not to move my head from the pillow. My wife was kind enough to stay in the rom with me and log me in over and over when the service froze. She is a dear (even worse for her are trips to Houston in Troy when she's not in the mood).

If anyone deserves payment here in our house it is she.

Everything posted here is accurate. Most of us (I said most, not all) are going to huff and puff, but we won't cancel our Redcast subscriptions or withdraw our commitment to endow the Day Hall replacement. We're a captive audience, we don't have alternatives, we're hosed.

It must be painful for players' parents in B.C. trying to watch the games. Or potential recruits?

billhoward
Everything posted here is accurate. Most of us (I said most, not all) are going to huff and puff, but we won't cancel our Redcast subscriptions or withdraw our commitment to endow the Day Hall replacement. We're a captive audience, we don't have alternatives, we're hosed.

It must be painful for players' parents in B.C. trying to watch the games. Or potential recruits?

I have absolutely cut back my spending on Redcast due to the quality issues.

My Day Hall endowment? Still under consideration.

billhoward
Everything posted here is accurate. Most of us (I said most, not all) are going to huff and puff, but we won't cancel our Redcast subscriptions or withdraw our commitment to endow the Day Hall replacement. We're a captive audience, we don't have alternatives, we're hosed.

It must be painful for players' parents in B.C. trying to watch the games. Or potential recruits?

I think they assume it's not cost-effective to put any quality into the product. They have a handful (a couple hundred? fewer? far fewer?) of addicts who would install a tickertape in our house if that was the only way to get updates, but they don't see any market to expand into.

Is this shortsighted of them? Maybe so. Let's say they had the highest quality product: HD, dependable, the ability to deliver both at and away from Lynah. Taking into account the entire Cornell fan diaspora plus all the Ithacans who might watch road games, what is the absolute upper limit on their subscribers? 10,000 maybe?

That's probably not enough to break even. The question is, would a quality product grow the market, pull in more subscribers, and start to turn Cornell hockey into something regionally significant like, say, Syracuse basketball. A few WCHA, CCHA, and HE schools do seem to have that sort of following. We and RPI and probably the only schools who might be able to do it from the ECAC.

there are costs to doing a good job with the Red cast..

1) equipment
2) network
3) people.

#3 is pretty much set no matter what they do with #1 or #2.
#2 is probably the most unknown. cornell has the bandwidth to get the games out to the server company, after that its a variable cost
#1 camera equipment is cheap. its a one time expense that should last for multiple seasons.

we cant even get decent replay equipment and by my count we have lost close to half a dozen games because of replay in the last few years.

the bigger issue is that they try to broadcast multiple sports and are spread too thin to do any of them well.

the reality is CU loses money doing the broadcasts as it is, would we be willing to pay more to make it better, when it probably should be cheaper to get more people to watch?

they need to go one solid Donor to fund it and could be done right.

SU bball has many of the same issues , they are using the TV feeds and still struggle with sound and quality picture.

I was flipping through the Comcast sports channels today and came across a Minnesota High School game that was worth watching. They had excellent announcers, full replays and multiple camera angles with great coverage of the puck. they never lost the play and they were always full of commentary and analysis as the game went on. This was a high school game and it outdid most any of the college streams I have experienced.

MotherPucker
I was flipping through the Comcast sports channels today and came across a Minnesota High School game that was worth watching. They had excellent announcers, full replays and multiple camera angles with great coverage of the puck. they never lost the play and they were always full of commentary and analysis as the game went on. This was a high school game and it outdid most any of the college streams I have experienced.

Then again, if it was a school like Edina it probably has a bigger hockey budget than most colleges.

Trotsky
Then again, if it was a school like Edina it probably has a bigger hockey budget than most colleges.

Don't some Minnesota schools have two varsities and a couple JV teams?

Jordan 04
I have absolutely cut back my spending on Redcast due to the quality issues.

Same here: no Redcast for me this year, or next year, or the year after, etc. until the quality and availability improves substantially.

Fundamentally, the AD suffers from the same delusion that most of the rest of academia has: that price and cost are somehow causally connected. There is no such connection: something can cost a great deal and be worth absolutely nothing to anybody, or something can be much cheaper to produce than its sale price if it is in high demand. All price vs. cost can tell you is whether something is economic to produce or not.

I don't believe it's has been mentioned elsewhere, so here's another reason.

Ben
I don't believe it's has been mentioned elsewhere, so here's another reason.

Ben,
Actually, this isn't something new. In the past when games have been on CBS college sports (or whatever they call themselves now) the games have been "blacked out" on the internet due to them not having some sort of feed sharing agreement like Cornell does with TWC.

When North Dakota played at Cornell in 2010 they took the feed from a network. It was the best quality video they've ever had. The next night it was back to dissapointment. Unfotunately all I do is complain.... write in campaign to change providers? If we can organize for a t-shirt we certainly can organize something to get our voices heard. Occupy Lynah? Something!! In the end it will come down to money and I don't think anyone has enough of it right now to change a thing.

I tried researching Redcast a bit and it seems like they run off a company called Sidearm Sports so the thing is much bigger than just the video. Looks like they run everything for the athletic department from a website perspective. They have a large client list so I would be surprised if we weren't the only school buying their video and having all these complaints. Maybe they should be the target of our fury?

Rita

Ben
I don't believe it's has been mentioned elsewhere, so here's another reason.

Ben,
Actually, this isn't something new. In the past when games have been on CBS college sports (or whatever they call themselves now) the games have been "blacked out" on the internet due to them not having some sort of feed sharing agreement like Cornell does with TWC.

I'm not too surprised about this, but is there some way for exiles to watch?

I don't see why Cornell, the ECAC, or the Ivy League do not negotiate agreements with national television networks so that alumni and fans do not have to tolerate subpar coverage from whomever provides the RedCast coverage. The SEC in football and Notre Dame have negotiated agreements with networks. I assume that in the Northeast that a network would gain appreciable ratings if it aired Hockey East and ECAC games each weekend. Why networks like NBC Sports or CBS Sports do not dole out coverage based upon region, like it does for collegiate football, I know not. Also, the reluctance of CBS Sports to allow for online streaming via gameday passes or an online subscriptions makes no business sense. The B1G has managed to create its own network. BTN plans to air B1G Hockey games starting in 2013-14. That will bring more attention to college hockey and increase the audience pool for other networks to air games from the other "major" conferences (Hockey East, NCHC, ECAC). I would be fine with watching Cornell hockey on network television even if it was relegated to The Ocho. It would be less painful than dealing with RedCast. (Aside, I still have not been able to get the Dartmouth game video. If anyone has video of the Bardreau OT goal, I'd love to see it...finally).

I think that the Ivy League should consider a network of its own much like BTN (I say that mostly in jest).

However, the downside of relying upon national networks that have not yet learned the culture or landscape of college hockey is that they produce promotions like this that imply clearly that Harvard-Yale is a men's ice hockey rivalry in addition to a football rivalry.

Cornell-Harvard is the preeminent Ivy League-hockey rivalry, at least according to both Cornell and Harvard.

What about something like a Kickstart campaign to improve the service? We all plug in what we want and how much we'd pay, and maybe that will get someone's attention. If the Athletics Department doesn't cooperate, then we push it to the Development Department. I think they could actually turn it into something good if they saw it as a fundraising tool.

Aaron M. Griffin
Aside, I still have not been able to get the Dartmouth game video. If anyone has video of the Bardreau OT goal, I'd love to see it...finally.

Here you go!

I'd love to know why the band sounded out of tune during the broadcast. Perhaps there is a delay which along with audio compression and processing causes this issue. (I noticed it during the game and in the DVR replay.)

Aaron M. Griffin
I don't see why Cornell, the ECAC, or the Ivy League do not negotiate agreements with national television networks so that alumni and fans do not have to tolerate subpar coverage from whomever provides the RedCast coverage.
...
I assume that in the Northeast that a network would gain appreciable ratings if it aired Hockey East and ECAC games each weekend.

I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess that Ivy League hockey would garner fewer viewers than Ivy League football, which itself is competing for the title of most "They still have that??" responses. You and I like it, but it is simply delusional to think that there would be enough interest from the public to justify anything short of a huge donor stepping up year after year to PAY some cable network to broadcast our games.

I believe a competent internet streaming operation could be profitable or at least break-even, which is where we should focus our efforts. TV is a slowly-dying medium anyway: by the time cable broadcasters are begging to carry our games, no one will be watching anymore.

Aaron M. Griffin
I don't see why Cornell, the ECAC, or the Ivy League do not negotiate agreements with national television networks so that alumni and fans do not have to tolerate subpar coverage from whomever provides the RedCast coverage. The SEC in football and Notre Dame have negotiated agreements with networks. I assume that in the Northeast that a network would gain appreciable ratings if it aired Hockey East and ECAC games each weekend. Why networks like NBC Sports or CBS Sports do not dole out coverage based upon region, like it does for collegiate football, I know not.

I'll ignore the fact that collegiate football is IMMENSELY more popular than collegiate hockey on a national level for a minute.

I'm not sure I'm following what you're suggesting by this part of your post. Are you looking for a regional sports network to provide an "ECAC Game of the Week" type of thing? Judging from what I've followed, TWC Sports has been doing an admirable job at showcasing NYS college hockey, given what they are. NESN used to feature some ECAC games, and picked up Quinnipiac games regularly in recent years. They've always been pretty HEA-centric, given that the network is Boston-based. Here's a list of the games they're broadcasting: [www.nesn.com]

If what you're suggesting is that a regional sports network take over for what Red Cast is trying to provide, which is live video broadcasts of every home game, I don't know any regional sports network that would commit the time, effort, and resources to one or multiple ECAC teams. NESN doesn't even do that for BU or BC. We've already discussed that Cornell probably loses money on the whole Red Cast venture, why on earth would a TV network want to buy into that? For what? A few dozen of us loyal Faithful? Cornell simply doesn't have the unaffiliated regional sports fan following that U. Minnesota has.

IMO, you're completely overestimating the popularity of college hockey & ECAC Hockey in general, and Cornell Hockey specifically. I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

Kyle Rose

Aaron M. Griffin
I don't see why Cornell, the ECAC, or the Ivy League do not negotiate agreements with national television networks so that alumni and fans do not have to tolerate subpar coverage from whomever provides the RedCast coverage.
...
I assume that in the Northeast that a network would gain appreciable ratings if it aired Hockey East and ECAC games each weekend.

I'm going to go out on a limb and take a wild guess that Ivy League hockey would garner fewer viewers than Ivy League football, which itself is competing for the title of most "They still have that??" responses. You and I like it, but it is simply delusional to think that there would be enough interest from the public to justify anything short of a huge donor stepping up year after year to PAY some cable network to broadcast our games.

I believe a competent internet streaming operation could be profitable or at least break-even, which is where we should focus our efforts. TV is a slowly-dying medium anyway: by the time cable broadcasters are begging to carry our games, no one will be watching anymore.

I agree with you almost entirely. I would prefer reliable, higher quality web streams than if a national network picked up Cornell/ECAC/Ivy games. Television as it is now, is becoming a thing of the past quickly. However, it seems that those who control RedCast care not about the quality of what they present. I just find it disheartening that RPI TV can present what I view as a stellar product while many of us cope with the comedy of errors that is RedCast. I doubt highly that RPI has more money within its university or fanbase to dedicate to its production than does Cornell. Even if RPI did, I cannot fathom it is proportionate to the extreme disparity in the output. I just presented what I said because it seems that nothing will happen unless some drastic actions are taken. Most of us are captive consumers.

RichH
IMO, you're completely overestimating the popularity of college hockey & ECAC Hockey in general, and Cornell Hockey specifically. I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

I understand that the viewership of collegiate hockey and collegiate football cannot be considered anywhere near comparable. However, I do not think that there is no market for it though. I find it curious that NBC Sports has set aside a Friday night spot to showcase a collegiate hockey game each week. The fact that NBC Sports has decided to invest in such an endeavor implies that they think that there is an untapped market for a college hockey product. I don't think we should presume that the market cannot grow beyond the niche following that collegiate hockey has now. The success or failure of NBC Sport's Friday Night Ice will be very telling of the ability to grow the market for college hockey. My suggestion would be along the lines that NBC Sports would highlight one or two games regionally based as in, the East would watch an ECAC or HEA game while the Midwest/Mountain states would watch a WCHA/CCHA game.

marty

Aaron M. Griffin
Aside, I still have not been able to get the Dartmouth game video. If anyone has video of the Bardreau OT goal, I'd love to see it...finally.

Here you go!

I'd love to know why the band sounded out of tune during the broadcast. Perhaps there is a delay which along with audio compression and processing causes this issue. (I noticed it during the game and in the DVR replay.)

Thank you! The shot looks similar to the goal that Bardreau scored in the game at Princeton.

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

Chris '03

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

I was in a "morning time zone" for that game and had a meeting that I just _could not_ skip. I could have gotten that rating up to 109,001 households (unless I was already counted for VCR-ing the game).

Chris '03

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

Really? That's the argument that you took away from my post?

The first two paragraphs were the important part, and illustrate my point (or really, Rich's point) well enough. The third was just for shits and giggles.

What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network. Like the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (aka NBC) or the Sioux North Dakota Sports Network. If they just did our games, they would show St Lawrence, Clarkson, Colgate, RPI and Union twice each, Niagara once or twice, RIT once. Nobody cares about Canisius. Thats 12 games right there - with decreased travel and production costs from what they are doing now.Yeah! Who's with me???

Beeeej

Chris '03

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

Really? That's the argument that you took away from my post?

The first two paragraphs were the important part, and illustrate my point (or really, Rich's point) well enough. The third was just for shits and giggles.

What was your argument, then? Because it sure seems to me that it's "any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game."

Chris '03

Beeeej

Chris '03

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

Really? That's the argument that you took away from my post?

The first two paragraphs were the important part, and illustrate my point (or really, Rich's point) well enough. The third was just for shits and giggles.

What was your argument, then? Because it sure seems to me that it's "any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game."

I think that's pretty much the argument. The ratings data for the title game (played at a much more reasonable hour/day for TV) do tend to back this up.

As much as it owuld be nice to have Cornell hockey on TV all the time I'm more than happy dealing with mediocre TV and radio in return for always being able to get tickets to any tournament game I want, pretty much for face value. You can't do that if college hockey becomes a ratings powerhouse.

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network.

I know you're being partially tongue-in-cheek, but guess which ECACHL school's logo happens to be featured on the front page of the TWCS website? Not us. [twcs.tv]

Hamilton is less than 40 miles from their offices in E. Syracuse, so maybe it just seems like they're more in the "Syracuse market" than Ithaca is. Or maybe there are Raider alumni on their marketing/web team. I've always had the impression they go to Starr and even Achilles more than they come to Lynah.

RichH

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network.

I know you're being partially tongue-in-cheek, but guess which ECACHL school's logo happens to be featured on the front page of the TWCS website? Not us. [twcs.tv]

Hamilton is less than 40 miles from their offices in E. Syracuse, so maybe it just seems like they're more in the "Syracuse market" than Ithaca is. Or maybe there are Raider alumni on their marketing/web team. I've always had the impression they go to Starr and even Achilles more than they come to Lynah.

I believe Colgate pays them to broadcast some games, Clarkson has done that for some games as well. Colgate football is much more important here than is Cornell. And if someone wonders what TW has better to do than Cornell hockey, well how about SU basketball. They broadcast games not carried by national TV. That's slightly more profitable than our hockey.

People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network. Like the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (aka NBC) or the Sioux North Dakota Sports Network. If they just did our games, they would show St Lawrence, Clarkson, Colgate, RPI and Union twice each, Niagara once or twice, RIT once. Nobody cares about Canisius. Thats 12 games right there - with decreased travel and production costs from what they are doing now.Yeah! Who's with me???

FWIW, TWC-Rochester broadcasts all RIT home games live. I presume RIT pays them to do this.

jtwcornell91

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network. Like the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (aka NBC) or the Sioux North Dakota Sports Network. If they just did our games, they would show St Lawrence, Clarkson, Colgate, RPI and Union twice each, Niagara once or twice, RIT once. Nobody cares about Canisius. Thats 12 games right there - with decreased travel and production costs from what they are doing now.Yeah! Who's with me???

FWIW, TWC-Rochester broadcasts all RIT home games live. I presume RIT pays them to do this.

IIRC, Cornell did this with home football games back in the Hofher era or thereabouts with one of the ESPN channels showing the games and Sean McDonough doing the play-by-play.

Al DeFlorio

jtwcornell91

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network. Like the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (aka NBC) or the Sioux North Dakota Sports Network. If they just did our games, they would show St Lawrence, Clarkson, Colgate, RPI and Union twice each, Niagara once or twice, RIT once. Nobody cares about Canisius. Thats 12 games right there - with decreased travel and production costs from what they are doing now.Yeah! Who's with me???

FWIW, TWC-Rochester broadcasts all RIT home games live. I presume RIT pays them to do this.

IIRC, Cornell did this with home football games back in the Hofher era or thereabouts with one of the ESPN channels showing the games and Sean McDonough doing the play-by-play.

IIRC this was funded by an alum. The games were on something like Sports Channel America, which had the advantage (over TWC) that it was available anywhere in the country if you (or your local sports bar) had the right sort of dish. We watched a bunch of them in Santa Barbara (or at least tried to; the people who ran the sports bar were pretty good at screwing with us).

jtwcornell91

Al DeFlorio

jtwcornell91

TimV
What else has Time Warner Cable got to do? My suggestion to them (in total self interest, after all, we ARE the Center of the Universe): Become the Cornell Broadcast Network. Like the Notre Dame Broadcast Company (aka NBC) or the Sioux North Dakota Sports Network. If they just did our games, they would show St Lawrence, Clarkson, Colgate, RPI and Union twice each, Niagara once or twice, RIT once. Nobody cares about Canisius. Thats 12 games right there - with decreased travel and production costs from what they are doing now.Yeah! Who's with me???

FWIW, TWC-Rochester broadcasts all RIT home games live. I presume RIT pays them to do this.

IIRC, Cornell did this with home football games back in the Hofher era or thereabouts with one of the ESPN channels showing the games and Sean McDonough doing the play-by-play.

IIRC this was funded by an alum. The games were on something like Sports Channel America, which had the advantage (over TWC) that it was available anywhere in the country if you (or your local sports bar) had the right sort of dish. We watched a bunch of them in Santa Barbara (or at least tried to; the people who ran the sports bar were pretty good at screwing with us).

Yes, I think it was an alum.

MotherPucker

kaelistus
So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

Edit: Apparently eLynah thinks the above message is SPAM. That's weird.

This is their response to the complaint they have pathetic service... I think I will wait til the last game of the year and then ask for a full refund for poor service


We apologize for the inconvenience. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties and we are working with the school to resolve the issue. If you would like us to cancel and refund your subscription, please let us know.

SIDEARM Streaming Support

The only way to get rid of these scumbag shysters would be to find out the connection between Cornell and whoever is running this scam company. I guarantee that's what's going on and until that information is surfaced both sides are going to turn a blind eye.

ScrewBU

MotherPucker

kaelistus
So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

Edit: Apparently eLynah thinks the above message is SPAM. That's weird.

This is their response to the complaint they have pathetic service... I think I will wait til the last game of the year and then ask for a full refund for poor service


We apologize for the inconvenience. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties and we are working with the school to resolve the issue. If you would like us to cancel and refund your subscription, please let us know.

SIDEARM Streaming Support

The only way to get rid of these scumbag shysters would be to find out the connection between Cornell and whoever is running this scam company. I guarantee that's what's going on and until that information is surfaced both sides are going to turn a blind eye.

Oh and no video tonight, BTW (at least not as of now.)

ScrewBU

MotherPucker

kaelistus
So do you guys get your money back when this happens?

Edit: Apparently eLynah thinks the above message is SPAM. That's weird.

This is their response to the complaint they have pathetic service... I think I will wait til the last game of the year and then ask for a full refund for poor service


We apologize for the inconvenience. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties and we are working with the school to resolve the issue. If you would like us to cancel and refund your subscription, please let us know.

SIDEARM Streaming Support

The only way to get rid of these scumbag shysters would be to find out the connection between Cornell and whoever is running this scam company. I guarantee that's what's going on and until that information is surfaced both sides are going to turn a blind eye.

Do the other 500-odd schools with Sidearm share this same myster "connection"?

Jim Hyla

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

The university has already cherry-picked some sports to be covered, why can't they improve the technical infrastructure for one (or two) of the already-chosen sports?

Chris '03

Beeeej

Chris '03

Beeeej

RichH
I consider us lucky that ESPN & ESPN2 still air the Frozen Four games. I'd be willing to bet the ratings are very low compared to just about any mid-season NCAA basketball game.

At least up through 2008, even the title game had never achieved higher than a 0.9 rating (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), a 1.04 cable rating (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota), a 3 share (1996, Colorado College vs. Michigan), and 899,000 households (2002, Maine vs. Minnesota).

By comparison, regular season college basketball games on ESPN this season have averaged a 0.9 rating and 1.363 million households.

Cornell vs. New Hampshire men's hockey Frozen Four semi-final in 2003? 0.1 rating, 0.1 cable rating, 0 share, 109,000 households.

While I don't dispute your point that any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game, it is a tad unfair to use a Thursday afternoon hockey game (morning in half the country!) to illustrate your point when basketball games are almost always played at times when people are actually at home.

Really? That's the argument that you took away from my post?

The first two paragraphs were the important part, and illustrate my point (or really, Rich's point) well enough. The third was just for shits and giggles.

What was your argument, then? Because it sure seems to me that it's "any college basketball game will typically outdraw even the best college hockey game."

That was my argument, or rather, it was Rich's argument. But the two Saturday championship games I cited were more than enough to illustrate it, and neither of those was "a tad unfair." As I said, the pathetic numbers for the Thursday Cornell semi were just for shits and giggles in case anyone wondered how we performed.

Ben

Jim Hyla

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

The university has already cherry-picked some sports to be covered, why can't they improve the technical infrastructure for one (or two) of the already-chosen sports?

As I said before, I'm sure they can and I'm sure it's money. I feel like a broken record.

Jim Hyla

You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that.

Jim Hyla
As I said before, I'm sure they can and I'm sure it's money. I feel like a broken record.

Uhhhh.....

Jim Hyla

Ben

Jim Hyla

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

The university has already cherry-picked some sports to be covered, why can't they improve the technical infrastructure for one (or two) of the already-chosen sports?

As I said before, I'm sure they can and I'm sure it's money. I feel like a broken record.

It's not necessarily a function of more money though. It's a function of resource allocation. You can spend $10 on ten sports or $50 on two. You've still only spent $100.

Chris '03

Jim Hyla

Ben

Jim Hyla

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

The university has already cherry-picked some sports to be covered, why can't they improve the technical infrastructure for one (or two) of the already-chosen sports?

As I said before, I'm sure they can and I'm sure it's money. I feel like a broken record.

It's not necessarily a function of more money though. It's a function of resource allocation. You can spend $10 on ten sports or $50 on two. You've still only spent $100.

Aren't some of us asking for $9 to be spent on 9 sports and $19 to be spent on hockey?

Title IX?

marty

Chris '03

Jim Hyla

Ben

Jim Hyla

Chris '03

Jim Hyla


People keep bringing up RPI TV, but as I understand it, they can't carry games live. Why? Probably because sports other than hockey are webcast, and RPI TV can't do that. Some of us always seem to forget that Redcast is more than Men's Hockey. That costs money. You can't just cherry pick the sport we like and say put all your money into that. If you want better webcast, then someone, or ones, will need to put up some money. Maybe we could get someone to help get better cameras, but more than that, doubtful.

Sure you can. Cornell, and other schools, have just decided that it's important for sprint football parents to have the same quality streaming experience as hockey fans. The merits of that position are debatable. And it's not as if sports have all been treated the same with Redcast either. For a few years football was streamed free thanks, I think, to some CFA $$. Slopetv does or did broadcast basketball games for free in competition with Redcast.

You proved my point, if you have a benefactor then you can do it differently. It required money to stream free football and for SlopeTV to do their broadcasts. If someone wants to put money into hockey, it could be upgraded.

The university has already cherry-picked some sports to be covered, why can't they improve the technical infrastructure for one (or two) of the already-chosen sports?

As I said before, I'm sure they can and I'm sure it's money. I feel like a broken record.

It's not necessarily a function of more money though. It's a function of resource allocation. You can spend $10 on ten sports or $50 on two. You've still only spent $100.

Aren't some of us asking for $9 to be spent on 9 sports and $19 to be spent on hockey?

Title IX?

Once the infrastructure is in place it can just as easily be used for Women's hockey. The sport that doesn't make sense from that perspective is football

css228
Once the infrastructure is in place it can just as easily be used for Women's hockey. The sport that doesn't make sense from that perspective is football

Schoellkopf --> Football, Sprint Football, Men's and Women's Lacrosse. Would be worth it to me.

Marty, I think Title IX applies only to participation and equal opportunity for women in athletics. It doesn't apply to sports promotion or coverage. Of course, that won't preempt an outcry from the relatively small cadre that follows women's sports.

Actually, the NCAA monitors coverage of men's and women's sports and whether they are comparable. Ads placed by sports info, quality of programs, etc. So while a woman may not file a Title IX action if her webpage is inferior to that of a male athlete in an equivalent sport, the NCAA recertification review look at an institutions commitment to women's teams in this context.

Those kinds of things are more threat than substance. When's the last time you saw Notre Dame or Alabama women in a broadcast?

dag14
Actually, the NCAA monitors coverage of men's and women's sports and whether they are comparable. Ads placed by sports info, quality of programs, etc. So while a woman may not file a Title IX action if her webpage is inferior to that of a male athlete in an equivalent sport, the NCAA recertification review look at an institutions commitment to women's teams in this context.

In that regard, the pep band has also been "encouraged" by Athletics to attend more women's events.

Ben

css228
Once the infrastructure is in place it can just as easily be used for Women's hockey. The sport that doesn't make sense from that perspective is football

Schoellkopf --> Football, Sprint Football, Men's and Women's Lacrosse. Would be worth it to me.

But from a Title IX perspective that's allocating resources to 3 men's sports and 1 women's sport. Which could be a problem.

css228

Ben

css228
Once the infrastructure is in place it can just as easily be used for Women's hockey. The sport that doesn't make sense from that perspective is football

Schoellkopf --> Football, Sprint Football, Men's and Women's Lacrosse. Would be worth it to me.

But from a Title IX perspective that's allocating resources to 3 men's sports and 1 women's sport. Which could be a problem.

You need some kind of smiley to indicate sarcasm, right? Right??

flyersgolf
Tonight (Darthmouth) is really really really really bad. Michigan vs. Notre Dame is very clear in High Def on NBC sports. When is Cornell and the ECAC going to wake up and get quality TV & streaming exposure. NBC is going to be broadcasting most of Notre Dame's ice hockey games as part of the deal to do continue to do Notre Dame football. That and Notre Dame moving to Hockey East made the deal to NBC a no brainer. Think that will help recruiting? I do not understand why there is not high def streaming available for PS3, ipad2...etc.

Wow, where to begin with this ridiculousness? Do you REALLY want to compare Cornell athletics with the media conglomerate that is Notre Dame & NBC? I'm currently in law school at Notre Dame, and you're comparing apples with water buffaloes here.

I've lurked around here for a long while here, and I'd finally got fed up with all of the griping that I thought I'd expand on upperdeck's post take a close, honest look into what exactly it would take to pull off a high quality webcast.

MotherPucker
I was flipping through the Comcast sports channels today and came across a Minnesota High School game that was worth watching. They had excellent announcers, full replays and multiple camera angles with great coverage of the puck. they never lost the play and they were always full of commentary and analysis as the game went on. This was a high school game and it outdid most any of the college streams I have experienced.

For the sake of everyone's sanity, can we PLEASE stop comparing what you see online to what you see on Comcast SportsNet? I don't care if it's only a Minnesota high school game; you've got professionals using professional equipment and using satellite technology.

Games on TV - outside of North Dakota, and maybe Minnesota, I can't imagine any school makes money on a TV hockey broadcast. More accurately, schools (or conferences) pay the production costs up front and sell ads after the fact to try to recoup that cost. Even outside of hockey, unless you're one of about 20-30 schools around the country (and Cornell isn't in that group and never will be), nobody's coming knocking on your door to broadcast your games.

Infrastructure - I imagine this to be one of the biggest problems. When the rink was renovated, the press box was virtually ignored, save the creation of a camera bay that tv crews don't even use. If you get to a tv game early enough you can see the tv crew pulling cable through the rafters over A/B, meaning the press box likely isn't wired properly. I'd guess that outside of minor updates, they're trying to pull off 2000s technology with 1960s infrastructure. I highly doubt Sidearm Sports is the problem - given all of the video options out there, I'm guessing they're probably the most favorable in terms of hosting this, but I still can't see them doing more than a 50-50 split with Cornell over the revenue. The lack of infrastructure brings me to...

Equipment - a bigger deal that you might think. That stuff's not cheap. There's a wide range of cameras out there, from $1,200 to $80,000. The average price for a quality camera would be in the range of $10,000. Don't think you can cut corners here; they currently use cheap little mini-cams, and we all know what type of picture comes from those. Like anything else, if you put garbage in, you're going to get garbage out. If you expect to be able to see the numbers on the backs of the sweaters, you're going to have to spend some serious cash. To couple your video feeds together, you're going to need a Tricaster (add graphics, replays, etc.); the low-end of those costs $12,000. Add into that cables, tripods, monitors, mixers, etc. (figure another $5,000) and you're looking at about $40k in start-up costs. Given their full-year cost, and assuming a 50-50 split of revenue, that'd be nearly 1200 full year subscribers just to pay the start-up cost. Do they have that kind of subscriber base? I doubt it. I would also assume your equipment lifespan to be no longer than four years, so it's not like it's a one-time thing, but more of a continual investment. Those tv games we love? There's a reason why they bring in a semi trailer full of video equipment (and have you even looked at the size of their cameras?). Even if you broke down that cost over four years (which I think is stretching it - by that fourth year, everyone on here would be complaining about the quality from obsolete equipment), you're still looking at 300 full year subscribers just to cover the cost of the equipment, and not even...

Labor - my personal opinion is that this is probably their biggest problem. Cornell uses students, which is fine, but my experience with the kids at Cornell is that the vast majority of them haven't done any type of physical labor in their lives, and don't intend to do any once they walk out of Schoellkopf, degree in hand. Add into that, how much are those kids getting paid? Maybe $10 an hour? More likely minimum wage, whatever that is anymore. So you've got some kid, untrained in video production and making $8 an hour - just how motivated are you going to be working for that kind of scratch? It's not like Cornell's got a media production major that you could get kids who want to go into that, like Syracuse does, so you're not even able to persuade people that it'll help their career. You could farm out that to Ithaca for some kind of credit, but that would take an agreement between the two schools, which won't happen. To straight away hire kids from Ithaca or Syracuse, you're going to have to pay a lot more than minimum wage to get them to give up damn near every weekend (figure they're there from 5pm until 10pm for a hockey game - when I was in school, those were prime drinking hours) from October to March (between hockey and basketball) - and that's not even thinking about football or lacrosse or any women's sports.

Bottom line - unless someone wants to pony up the cash for a video streaming endowment that's going to pay out about $20k a year, what you see is probably what you're going to get. I hate to say it, but our best chance for quality video streaming went out the window when the decision to renovate Lynah was made over building a new arena. A new arena would have modern wiring, proper camera facilities (that would get over the students so you wouldn't lose the puck in the near corners) and would likely have a video board inside (with camera equipment and staff to match). Unfortunately, that's the trade-off; would you rather have Lynah or would you rather have crystal-clear video streaming? Take your pick: tradition or modernity, you can't have both. Having seen what Notre Dame did with their new building, it makes me sad about what might have been at Cornell.

Cornell is an elite school with computer and communications departs. Let the students produce and engineer the games in the best technology available.

That's such an ignorant comment it's not even funny. Do you REALLY think Cornell's computer department is working on better ways to stream video? Cornell's communications department isn't a true communications department in the sense you're talking about.

So all that being said......how does RPI TV work then?

angrybear

flyersgolf
Tonight (Darthmouth) is really really really really bad. Michigan vs. Notre Dame is very clear in High Def on NBC sports. When is Cornell and the ECAC going to wake up and get quality TV & streaming exposure. NBC is going to be broadcasting most of Notre Dame's ice hockey games as part of the deal to do continue to do Notre Dame football. That and Notre Dame moving to Hockey East made the deal to NBC a no brainer. Think that will help recruiting? I do not understand why there is not high def streaming available for PS3, ipad2...etc.

Wow, where to begin with this ridiculousness? Do you REALLY want to compare Cornell athletics with the media conglomerate that is Notre Dame & NBC? I'm currently in law school at Notre Dame, and you're comparing apples with water buffaloes here.

I've lurked around here for a long while here, and I'd finally got fed up with all of the griping that I thought I'd expand on upperdeck's post take a close, honest look into what exactly it would take to pull off a high quality webcast.

MotherPucker
I was flipping through the Comcast sports channels today and came across a Minnesota High School game that was worth watching. They had excellent announcers, full replays and multiple camera angles with great coverage of the puck. they never lost the play and they were always full of commentary and analysis as the game went on. This was a high school game and it outdid most any of the college streams I have experienced.

For the sake of everyone's sanity, can we PLEASE stop comparing what you see online to what you see on Comcast SportsNet? I don't care if it's only a Minnesota high school game; you've got professionals using professional equipment and using satellite technology.

Games on TV - outside of North Dakota, and maybe Minnesota, I can't imagine any school makes money on a TV hockey broadcast. More accurately, schools (or conferences) pay the production costs up front and sell ads after the fact to try to recoup that cost. Even outside of hockey, unless you're one of about 20-30 schools around the country (and Cornell isn't in that group and never will be), nobody's coming knocking on your door to broadcast your games.

Infrastructure - I imagine this to be one of the biggest problems. When the rink was renovated, the press box was virtually ignored, save the creation of a camera bay that tv crews don't even use. If you get to a tv game early enough you can see the tv crew pulling cable through the rafters over A/B, meaning the press box likely isn't wired properly. I'd guess that outside of minor updates, they're trying to pull off 2000s technology with 1960s infrastructure. I highly doubt Sidearm Sports is the problem - given all of the video options out there, I'm guessing they're probably the most favorable in terms of hosting this, but I still can't see them doing more than a 50-50 split with Cornell over the revenue. The lack of infrastructure brings me to...

Equipment - a bigger deal that you might think. That stuff's not cheap. There's a wide range of cameras out there, from $1,200 to $80,000. The average price for a quality camera would be in the range of $10,000. Don't think you can cut corners here; they currently use cheap little mini-cams, and we all know what type of picture comes from those. Like anything else, if you put garbage in, you're going to get garbage out. If you expect to be able to see the numbers on the backs of the sweaters, you're going to have to spend some serious cash. To couple your video feeds together, you're going to need a Tricaster (add graphics, replays, etc.); the low-end of those costs $12,000. Add into that cables, tripods, monitors, mixers, etc. (figure another $5,000) and you're looking at about $40k in start-up costs. Given their full-year cost, and assuming a 50-50 split of revenue, that'd be nearly 1200 full year subscribers just to pay the start-up cost. Do they have that kind of subscriber base? I doubt it. I would also assume your equipment lifespan to be no longer than four years, so it's not like it's a one-time thing, but more of a continual investment. Those tv games we love? There's a reason why they bring in a semi trailer full of video equipment (and have you even looked at the size of their cameras?). Even if you broke down that cost over four years (which I think is stretching it - by that fourth year, everyone on here would be complaining about the quality from obsolete equipment), you're still looking at 300 full year subscribers just to cover the cost of the equipment, and not even...

Labor - my personal opinion is that this is probably their biggest problem. Cornell uses students, which is fine, but my experience with the kids at Cornell is that the vast majority of them haven't done any type of physical labor in their lives, and don't intend to do any once they walk out of Schoellkopf, degree in hand. Add into that, how much are those kids getting paid? Maybe $10 an hour? More likely minimum wage, whatever that is anymore. So you've got some kid, untrained in video production and making $8 an hour - just how motivated are you going to be working for that kind of scratch? It's not like Cornell's got a media production major that you could get kids who want to go into that, like Syracuse does, so you're not even able to persuade people that it'll help their career. You could farm out that to Ithaca for some kind of credit, but that would take an agreement between the two schools, which won't happen. To straight away hire kids from Ithaca or Syracuse, you're going to have to pay a lot more than minimum wage to get them to give up damn near every weekend (figure they're there from 5pm until 10pm for a hockey game - when I was in school, those were prime drinking hours) from October to March (between hockey and basketball) - and that's not even thinking about football or lacrosse or any women's sports.

Bottom line - unless someone wants to pony up the cash for a video streaming endowment that's going to pay out about $20k a year, what you see is probably what you're going to get. I hate to say it, but our best chance for quality video streaming went out the window when the decision to renovate Lynah was made over building a new arena. A new arena would have modern wiring, proper camera facilities (that would get over the students so you wouldn't lose the puck in the near corners) and would likely have a video board inside (with camera equipment and staff to match). Unfortunately, that's the trade-off; would you rather have Lynah or would you rather have crystal-clear video streaming? Take your pick: tradition or modernity, you can't have both. Having seen what Notre Dame did with their new building, it makes me sad about what might have been at Cornell.

Cornell is an elite school with computer and communications departs. Let the students produce and engineer the games in the best technology available.

That's such an ignorant comment it's not even funny. Do you REALLY think Cornell's computer department is working on better ways to stream video? Cornell's communications department isn't a true communications department in the sense you're talking about.

Apparently you have been hitting the books too much (not a bad thing) and lurking too little because as semsox has noted this completely negates your suppositions:

Student Run Video @ RPI

This was live streamed until RPI's contracted service -B2 - complained. It is now an archive service for hockey

angrybear
Blah blah blah

Sorry, but as others have pointed out, this is utter horseshit when you see what students at other schools are actually doing.

And FWIW I'm not suggesting that Cornell's hockey streaming has to be as awesome as CBS's online offerings: I'm simply asking for better video quality and a cameraman who has some idea of where the puck is. I'm even willing to sacrifice overlays for the clock/score/etc., if they're too difficult to implement, simply to get 30+ fps video that I can watch in a window larger than a postage stamp (or even on, say, an actual TV!) without getting a headache from the artifacts, blockiness, and ghosting and without it going down or being unavailable because someone tripped over the power cord and didn't notice. You can get something 10x better than RedCast with a very cheap consumer video camera and free software. Age did it TEN YEARS AGO, back when streaming video was still pretty immature.

I don't get why anyone would defend the shittiness of this service. You have to be willfully ignorant or incredibly stupid to assert that RedCast is the best Cornell can reasonably be expected to offer. Since I don't know you, I can't judge which is the case.

While you're not wrong, you're still coming at it from a TV production standpoint. You can legitimately cut some corners for a webcast. First off, you're not broadcasting in HD. You will probably do just fine with something like a Canon GL-2, which I think is already a step up from what they're using now. You're absolutely right that a big part of the problem is the camera operator. Someone who knows what they're doing will make a huge difference.

Again, this isn't TV. You don't need a Tricaster. Graphics can easily be handled through software and if you throw something like a Datavideo DV Bank at each camera, you've got replay capabilities at about a grand a pop. I submitted a proposal a few years ago the last time they switched providers, which was completely ignored, probably because it came from me, but for a workable 2-camera setup, you're looking at around of $8000 in startup hardware and software, plus around $2000/year for server costs and labor.

Kyle Rose

angrybear
Blah blah blah

Sorry, but as others have pointed out, this is utter horseshit when you see what students at other schools are actually doing.

And FWIW I'm not suggesting that Cornell's hockey streaming has to be as awesome as CBS's online offerings: I'm simply asking for better video quality and a cameraman who has some idea of where the puck is. I'm even willing to sacrifice overlays for the clock/score/etc., if they're too difficult to implement, simply to get 30+ fps video that I can watch in a window larger than a postage stamp (or even on, say, an actual TV!) without getting a headache from the artifacts, blockiness, and ghosting and without it going down or being unavailable because someone tripped over the power cord and didn't notice. You can get something 10x better than RedCast with a very cheap consumer video camera and free software. Age did it TEN YEARS AGO, back when streaming video was still pretty immature.

I don't get why anyone would defend the shittiness of this service. You have to be willfully ignorant or incredibly stupid to assert that RedCast is the best Cornell can reasonably be expected to offer. Since I don't know you, I can't judge which is the case.

In response to angrybear:

Perhaps it is institutional arrogance, but most Cornellians cannot fathom that RPI or other institutions can produce a product that is vastly superior to what we endure with RedCast. I agree with them. It is absurd and selling Cornellians short to think that this is the best we can do.

I am familiar with the media fiascoes that are major sports university campuses. I am currently a law student at Penn State, so I can appreciate well the difference in the media coverage that surrounds institutions of the academic ilk like Cornell and those of the perceived athletic ilk like Penn State and Notre Dame. So, I understand that there is a (possibly) substantial difference in market for our sports product and the way that the universities represent themselves to the general public.

I know that better quality video and production can occur easily. Penn State is still a club hockey program. It provides free streaming video for both home and away games that far surpasses the quality of video that RedCast offers. The "production crew" is an older Canadian man (Steve Penstone), his wife, and one assistant. The University pays none of them. The University did not purchase the production equipment. So, barring the unlikelihood that Steve Penstone is independently wealthy and decided to invest thousands of his own wealth in providing free streaming coverage of Penn State Icers hockey, there is a cost-effective and qualitatively better way to provide streaming coverage of Cornell hockey to Cornellians.

Now, I agree that Lynah is not the easiest location from which to broadcast. The infrastructure is not on par for high-definition broadcasts with what is at Compton Family Ice Arena or what will be at Pegula Ice Arena. I concede that. I would err on the side of the history that Lynah has over desiring a new rink for the mere purpose of better broadcasts. Better broadcasts can still be achieved for Cornell hockey as evidenced by my free streaming, higher quality coverage at Penn State. If one thinks it is easier to broadcast from the current Greenberg Ice Pavilion at Penn State or any other ACHA rink than Lynah, I find it unbelievable.

Just a small point about graphics: for one of the recent basketball games (I think it was the Albright game) they didn't use the score graphic but had a camera trained on the scoreboard and patched that in to one corner of the screen. Unlike the graphics, it updated automatically (obviously), showed team fouls, individual fouls,the possession arrow, etc. While hockey doesn't have all of those other important bits of information to keep track of, showing the Lynah scoreboard instead of their mediocre graphics would at least show us how much time is left on a PP or PK.

Ben
showing the Lynah scoreboard instead of their mediocre graphics would at least show us how much time is left on a PP or PK.

If it didn't phase like crazy.

Kyle Rose
You can get something 10x better than RedCast with a very cheap consumer video camera and free software. Age did it TEN YEARS AGO, back when streaming video was still pretty immature.

Here's the key to everything. Age did it, 10 years ago. For free. And it was way better than RedCast. Cornell decided to kick Age out and contract an inferior service - then charge us for it. So we can argue back an forth about what Cornell can afford or cannot afford.. Except we know what we had and they choose not to use it.

semsox
So all that being said......how does RPI TV work then?

Exactly. And if Cornellians are grooming to run NBC rather than run gaffer's tape, we could always reach across town to Ithaca College, which is the go-to for students who understand TV production.

(It must suck to be the Cornell student who's the camera operator if he or she frequents eLynah. Nobody's performance gets dissected more, or more critically. They probably check each day to see if they're now the subject of a second Not the Answer thread.)

billhoward

semsox
So all that being said......how does RPI TV work then?

Exactly. And if Cornellians are grooming to run NBC rather than run gaffer's tape, we could always reach across town to Ithaca College, which is the go-to for students who understand TV production.

(It must suck to be the Cornell student who's the camera operator if he or she frequents eLynah. Nobody's performance gets dissected more, or more critically. They probably check each day to see if they're now the subject of a second Not the Answer thread.)

my thoughts exactly- a cornell IC partnership for hockey broadcasts? why not?

Kyle Rose

angrybear
Blah blah blah

Sorry, but as others have pointed out, this is utter horseshit when you see what students at other schools are actually doing.

And FWIW I'm not suggesting that Cornell's hockey streaming has to be as awesome as CBS's online offerings: I'm simply asking for better video quality and a cameraman who has some idea of where the puck is. I'm even willing to sacrifice overlays for the clock/score/etc., if they're too difficult to implement, simply to get 30+ fps video that I can watch in a window larger than a postage stamp (or even on, say, an actual TV!) without getting a headache from the artifacts, blockiness, and ghosting and without it going down or being unavailable because someone tripped over the power cord and didn't notice. You can get something 10x better than RedCast with a very cheap consumer video camera and free software. Age did it TEN YEARS AGO, back when streaming video was still pretty immature.

I don't get why anyone would defend the shittiness of this service. You have to be willfully ignorant or incredibly stupid to assert that RedCast is the best Cornell can reasonably be expected to offer. Since I don't know you, I can't judge which is the case.

Oh, where to begin with all of this...

This may be hard for some on here to read, but as long as Cornell is the type of school where the vast majority of students (not all, but most) have a superior sense of entitlement, what we have now IS as good as we should expect. Why is RPI's better? Because they have a video production MAJOR. You have students going to school there who have their own Video Production business before even enrolling in school. Frankly, RPI's is better because their students have the same level of intelligence that Cornell's do, but without the silver spoon stuck up their ass.

And you're right, Age was doing this a decade ago, and do you know why it was better? Because he cared about it. As I stated earlier, but you were too ignorant to read, Kyle (apparently Age is the only one who bothered to read that, so props to you, sir), do you think some student making minimum wage and giving up their Friday and Saturday night CARES about the quality of the job they're doing? Do they care if they've kicked out the power cord accidentally? The students who truly care about Cornell hockey are in the stands, not running a camera.

As a Cornellian, the arrogance of some people here absolutely makes me sick to my stomach. The idea that Cornell should offer the same level of service as the media giants that are major college athletics is absurd. The same level of pride that alumni and boosters have in the athletic department - even for club sports - isn't the same at Cornell as it is at a place like Penn State. So yes, you're going to have people volunteering their services to do streaming. My guess is that once Penn State goes varsity, Steve Penastone will be pushed out in favor of the Big Ten Network.

Another part of that arrogance is the assumption that IC is clamoring to come to East Hill to give their services for free. Ithaca's got their own very successful athletic department - they don't NEED Cornell, yet why is it that folks like Bill Howard and The Rancor assume they do?

It's just amazing to me how people want this and they want that, but when you start to point out all of the costs associated with that, and all of the reasons for doing so, those things are no longer needed. One of the lasting memories that I have of Redcast came just last year, when the women's team played in the NCAA game at Lynah, all of the women's games first-round games were streamed free - the RedCast production was the best out of BU, BC and Wisconsin. This continual sentiment that "everyone's service is better" doesn't always hold true.

angrybear
And you're right, Age was doing this a decade ago, and do you know why it was better? Because he cared about it.

What a unique characteristic! I doubt there is anyone else who cares about Cornell hockey and would do this for free.

How does this one sentence not invalidate most of your rant? The "why don't we have HD broadcast" complaints are a bit much but the "why do we have to pay for a shitty streaming service" complaints are dead on.

There is, somewhere in Tompkins County, a guy who would love to stream the video. He doesn't even have to care about hockey. He just has to want to get experience at video production. If there isn't anyone at Cornell, I'm sure someone at IC would want to do it. Not because she cares about Cornell but because she'd also do it for TC3 or Elmira or whoever needs the help just to do it.

The real demand here isn't unreasonable: stop asking us to pay for a shitty product when a much better product is so readily available. The TV stuff is just a pipe dream.

angrybear

Kyle Rose

angrybear
Blah blah blah

Sorry, but as others have pointed out, this is utter horseshit when you see what students at other schools are actually doing.

And FWIW I'm not suggesting that Cornell's hockey streaming has to be as awesome as CBS's online offerings: I'm simply asking for better video quality and a cameraman who has some idea of where the puck is. I'm even willing to sacrifice overlays for the clock/score/etc., if they're too difficult to implement, simply to get 30+ fps video that I can watch in a window larger than a postage stamp (or even on, say, an actual TV!) without getting a headache from the artifacts, blockiness, and ghosting and without it going down or being unavailable because someone tripped over the power cord and didn't notice. You can get something 10x better than RedCast with a very cheap consumer video camera and free software. Age did it TEN YEARS AGO, back when streaming video was still pretty immature.

I don't get why anyone would defend the shittiness of this service. You have to be willfully ignorant or incredibly stupid to assert that RedCast is the best Cornell can reasonably be expected to offer. Since I don't know you, I can't judge which is the case.

Oh, where to begin with all of this...

This may be hard for some on here to read, but as long as Cornell is the type of school where the vast majority of students (not all, but most) have a superior sense of entitlement, what we have now IS as good as we should expect. Why is RPI's better? Because they have a video production MAJOR. You have students going to school there who have their own Video Production business before even enrolling in school. Frankly, RPI's is better because their students have the same level of intelligence that Cornell's do, but without the silver spoon stuck up their ass.

RPI has, as I have said, two services. The streaming is done by B2 and is not of the quality of the student run RPI-TV. So their alums who watch live streaming have a less than ideal product to watch. Only half of RPIs service is vastly superior. The live side of their product is at best half-vast as is your argument.

Is it just me or has redcast sucked worse than normal today? It paused halfway through the women's game and then it locked me out of the first half of the second. It is barely even working now.

bnr24
Is it just me or has redcast sucked worse than normal today? It paused halfway through the women's game and then it locked me out of the first half of the second. It is barely even working now.

It was Not One Of Their Better Efforts. But at least they didn't actually lose signal during the game.

Yeah, between the audio and video, I got almost all of the game(s). So much frustration.

I presume no Redcast for the playoffs again this year?

Chris '03
I presume no Redcast for the playoffs again this year?

FYP.

Chris '03
I presume no Redcast for the playoffs again this year?

I don't know about individual first round or quarterfinals, but I am gong to hint that the Championship games may be the best 'made for internet streaming' broadcast the ECAC has ever seen. I should be able to release more details in the next couple of days.

Does this include women's games for playoffs? I didn't have to worry last year when I was actually on the Hill for the games.

bnr24
Does this include women's games for playoffs? I didn't have to worry last year when I was actually on the Hill for the games.

The two quarterfinal games this past weekend were on RedCast. Nothing listed for this weekend, though.

mackek2
I don't know about individual first round or quarterfinals, but I am gong to hint that the Championship games may be the best 'made for internet streaming' broadcast the ECAC has ever seen. I should be able to release more details in the next couple of days.

The bar is not that high.

Let's make a four- or six-panel poster. Help with some ideas for the panels and captions. Starter suggestions:

This is what Cornell thinks Redcast is. [image: Cowboy Stadium jumbotron]
This is Redcast on its best day. [image: the lingering question mark?}
This is what my wife / girlfriend thinks I'm doing watching Redcast.
This is what the Redcast videographer thinks Redcast is [image: guy texting, sleeping, reading textbook; camera shows center ice; red glare from off-camera suggests goal light just got lit]
This is what Cornell thinks of the gear [HD broadcast camera on massively tall tripod]
This is the gear [flip cam on tabletop tripod behind three guys with tall caps]
This is what RPI [fill in the blank]
This is Redcast most days [a still photo will do it justice]

I'd just like to see the infamous question mark above the caption, "streaming video. ur doin it wrong."

Trotsky
I'd just like to see the infamous question mark above the caption, "streaming video. ur doin it wrong."

Aaron M. Griffin

Trotsky
I'd just like to see the infamous question mark above the caption, "streaming video. ur doin it wrong."

Very nice, but the meme requires the awful "UR" abbreviation.

Trotsky

Aaron M. Griffin

Trotsky
I'd just like to see the infamous question mark above the caption, "streaming video. ur doin it wrong."

Very nice, but the meme requires the awful "UR" abbreviation.

ur-doin-it-wrong-03.png

I debated doing it with the atrocious "UR" abbreviation but consulted the all-knowing Know Your Meme for advice and conventions.

The fuzz filter is in full effect this afternoon for lax. Can't see any jersey numbers.

Chris '03
The fuzz filter is in full effect this afternoon for lax. Can't see any jersey numbers.

Couldn't see anything much of second period; wouldn't connect.

The Cornell Sports twitter account asked if any students were looking to film Cornell sporting events as an employment opportunity on campus.

@amg1013 Aaron - be on the lookout for a big announcement in the coming days about RedCast.

— Cornell Big Red (@CornellSports) August 28, 2012

Is the big announcement that a blind chimpanzee with arthritis could film the games better than RedCast has? Because that's already widely understood.

Aaron M. Griffin
The Cornell Sports twitter account asked if any students were looking to film Cornell sporting events as an employment opportunity on campus.

@amg1013 Aaron - be on the lookout for a big announcement in the coming days about RedCast.

— Cornell Big Red (@CornellSports) August 28, 2012

And to hell for anyone not an alum who ponies up for the show?

Were you able to sign up for Redcast already? At this point it does not quite seem ready yet to allow me to create a new subscription.

snert1288
Were you able to sign up for Redcast already? At this point it does not quite seem ready yet to allow me to create a new subscription.

I think you may need to wait for "THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT" before you can sign up and give them your money to burn.

[cornellbigred.com]

"RedCast has added multi-bitrate streams that work similar to ESPN3 broadcasts"

Now in HD and on mobile devices.

Let's see how quickly it fails!

Football, sprint football, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's ice hockey, wrestling and men's and women's lacrosse will have all home games/dual meets broadcast on RedCast, with audio also available for road contests for football, men's basketball and men's lacrosse contests. Additionally, select events in other sports will also be made available for broadcast on a game-by-game basis. A men's soccer package that includes audio only will be available for home games. Additional contests are expected to be added, with volleyball, baseball, gymnastics and other sports likely to have games broadcast.

No road audio for hockey, or is that just an oversight?