Big Ten Hockey Conference

[www.uscho.com]
So what does that mean for us?

This has been a foregone conclusion for a while. We reported a few weeks ago that it was imminent. Haven't confirmed a Monday announcement yet - but could very well be.

What does it mean for Cornell/ECAC? Probably nothing, but who knows. Could set off a chain reaction.

I went to Michigan for grad school, watched them win a national championship in '96. I think this stinks for the CCHA and the WCHA. Boo. Shame on everyone involved in this horrendous decision.

This USCHO article says nothing new. We knew this weeks ago. Now if they were to say they know this will be announced Monday and here is how it's going to be organized, then they are adding something new. Otherwise it's just another avenue for people to complain. And boy we needed that.

RatushnyFan
I went to Michigan for grad school, watched them win a national championship in '96. I think this stinks for the CCHA and the WCHA. Boo. Shame on everyone involved in this horrendous decision.

What part is the horrendous, Penn State coming, a Big Ten Conference starting, having to drop out of the other conferences? There is a lot happening, but Penn State is coming. How the Big Ten organizes is another issue. With all the comments, I've not seen anyone try to show something that is better for the Big Ten schools. To just say this is terrible doesn't really solve anything. Let's see someone come up with an answer that helps everyone.

Let me rephrase - it would be horrendous for all the existing rivalries and it would be horrendous for the remaining pieces of the CCHA and WCHA if it happens. It might mean more money for the Big Ten conference schools, but it would be disappointing in many ways. What's so bad about the status quo? I'm just voicing an opinion, but my solution would be to leave the conferences as they are and let mighty Penn State flounder around. I don't care just about the Big Ten schools, I care about Division 1 NCAA hockey.

This is the only logical result of 6 Big Ten teams fielding hockey teams.

RatushnyFan
Let me rephrase - it would be horrendous for all the existing rivalries and it would be horrendous for the remaining pieces of the CCHA and WCHA if it happens. It might mean more money for the Big Ten conference schools, but it would be disappointing in many ways. What's so bad about the status quo? I'm just voicing an opinion, but my solution would be to leave the conferences as they are and let mighty Penn State flounder around. I don't care just about the Big Ten schools, I care about Division 1 NCAA hockey.

More specifically, it hurts the smaller schools in those conferences, many with great histories. While those schools still have rabid fanbases that will hopefully keep them afloat, it is a financial hit to have big name (that is, big name in all sports, not just hockey, so they have more of a name brand) schools not part of the annual conference lineup. Or at least that is the general sentiment over why it's bad for the sport overall.

Re-form the old ECAC (or perhaps ECAC+) as a promotion/relegation two- (three-? four-?) division league. Get the top division a steady TV contract and throw the bottom (2? 3?) divisions a few televised game bones every year. Then there would be something in the east that would generate enough excitement to balance a BTHC. (I.e., who wants to watch yet another game between BC and UNH? Just like last year...)

For example (based on last year's KRACH for obvious reasons):

Premier        East           West           Development
========================================================
BC             Merrimack      Union          Holy Cross
UNH            Quinnipiac     SLU            Bentley
Vermont        RPI            Colgate        Connecticut
Cornell        Providence     Robert Morris  AIC
Maine          Princeton      Niagara        (Syracuse?)
BU             Brown          AL-Huntsville  (Navy?)
Mass-Lowell    Harvard        RIT             
Yale           Dartmouth      Clarkson
Northeastern   Air Force      Canisius
Mass-Amherst   Army           Mercyhurst

Home and homes vs. the other 9 teams in your division, which would, of course, leave the Ivies free to schedule ten of their "non-conference" games against the other Ivies if need be and come in under the 29-game limit. (For example, we would have three "free" games available after playing the Ivy slackers in the East division in the scheme above.)

16-team tourney: 10 teams from the Premier and the top three from the East and West, three game series at home of higher seed. Make the quarters? You're in the Premier next year. Get bounced? You're in the second-chance/relegation tournament—8 teams for 2 spots. Reseed. Next round, best-of-three again at higher seed. Semis and championships in Boston while, at campus sites, four teams engage in promotion/relegation matches. To the pain! Meanwhile there could be a flexible group of playoff games to determine who moves up from Development to the East or West divisions and who goes down, down, down!

Note, even if there were not some other autobids handed out in some way, it would still be possible for a team from the lower divisions to make a run at a national championship; indeed, with some judicious choices for out-of-conference and out-of-division games and a good run in the playoffs, I would think a lower division team might even be able to squeak out an at-large.

Sounds crazy? Sure. Travel partnering might be tough (especially with Air Force and Huntsville), but perhaps some solution might be found through "unbalancing" the homes and aways. (E.g., two-game sets against the outliers [Cornell, Air Force, and Huntsville, above] with assignments pulled out of a hat or something. This would also change year to year.) Encouraging BU and BC to dilute their recruiting advantages in this manner might take some work. Maintaining some old rivalries might be difficult, but new ones might develop and some old ones would be rekindled. The Ivies would find it difficult to schedule exotic out-of-conference games and tournaments, but I think the possibly better conference matchups might make those difficulties worthwhile.

In the end, I think eastern hockey is getting ossified. If the ECAC and Hockey East sit still, the BTHC will start eating into members' recruiting. Even BC and BU.

In any case, change is a-comin'.

[Forgot Sacred Heart. (Easy to do.) They would be in the East division and would push Army to "Development."]

One post on USCHO that got my attention mentioned a potential struggle for the remaining members of the CCHA. I agree that without Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio St, the conference could have a harder time recruiting (decreased interest, less scouting at games, etc.).
The bigger concern for me is that talented players who would otherwise go to remaining WCHA teams (UND, CC, Denver etc.) instead want to play for the Big Ten, which will likely have national TV deals and such. That being said, could further consolidation of talent/recruiting power out west could put Cornell (and the ECAC) at a disadvantage come NCAA tournament time? Probably not too much, but it's tough enough already.

Scersk '97
Re-form the old ECAC (or perhaps ECAC+) as a promotion/relegation two- (three-? four-?) division league. Get the top division a steady TV contract and throw the bottom (2? 3?) divisions a few televised game bones every year. Then there would be something in the east that would generate enough excitement to balance a BTHC. (I.e., who wants to watch yet another game between BC and UNH? Just like last year...)

For example (based on last year's KRACH for obvious reasons):

Premier        East           West           Development
========================================================
BC             Merrimack      Union          Holy Cross
UNH            Quinnipiac     SLU            Bentley
Vermont        RPI            Colgate        Connecticut
Cornell        Providence     Robert Morris  AIC
Maine          Princeton      Niagara        (Syracuse?)
BU             Brown          AL-Huntsville  (Navy?)
Mass-Lowell    Harvard        RIT             
Yale           Dartmouth      Clarkson
Northeastern   Air Force      Canisius
Mass-Amherst   Army           Mercyhurst

Home and homes vs. the other 9 teams in your division, which would, of course, leave the Ivies free to schedule ten of their "non-conference" games against the other Ivies if need be and come in under the 29-game limit. (For example, we would have three "free" games available after playing the Ivy slackers in the East division in the scheme above.)

16-team tourney: 10 teams from the Premier and the top three from the East and West, three game series at home of higher seed. Make the quarters? You're in the Premier next year. Get bounced? You're in the second-chance/relegation tournament—8 teams for 2 spots. Reseed. Next round, best-of-three again at higher seed. Semis and championships in Boston while, at campus sites, four teams engage in promotion/relegation matches. To the pain! Meanwhile there could be a flexible group of playoff games to determine who moves up from Development to the East or West divisions and who goes down, down, down!

Note, even if there were not some other autobids handed out in some way, it would still be possible for a team from the lower divisions to make a run at a national championship; indeed, with some judicious choices for out-of-conference and out-of-division games and a good run in the playoffs, I would think a lower division team might even be able to squeak out an at-large.

Sounds crazy? Sure. Travel partnering might be tough (especially with Air Force and Huntsville), but perhaps some solution might be found through "unbalancing" the homes and aways. (E.g., two-game sets against the outliers [Cornell, Air Force, and Huntsville, above] with assignments pulled out of a hat or something. This would also change year to year.) Encouraging BU and BC to dilute their recruiting advantages in this manner might take some work. Maintaining some old rivalries might be difficult, but new ones might develop and some old ones would be rekindled. The Ivies would find it difficult to schedule exotic out-of-conference games and tournaments, but I think the possibly better conference matchups might make those difficulties worthwhile.

In the end, I think eastern hockey is getting ossified. If the ECAC and Hockey East sit still, the BTHC will start eating into members' recruiting. Even BC and BU.

In any case, change is a-comin'.

If you're going to reform the ECAC, you reform the real ECAC as the Premier with Providence, BU, BC, UNH, Maine, and Northeastern, The Ivies, Union (replacing Army because their rivalry with RPI is great) RPI, Colgate, Vermont, SLU and Clarkson for histories sake. Also if that were to happen we'd need more NC games.

css228
If you're going to reform the ECAC, you reform the real ECAC as the Premier with Providence, BU, BC, UNH, Maine, and Northeastern, The Ivies, Union (replacing Army because their rivalry with RPI is great) RPI, Colgate, Vermont, SLU and Clarkson for histories sake. Also if that were to happen we'd need more NC games.

So basically bring the old ECAC back? Don't think that's going to happen unless BTHC's creation poses a significant threat to HE.

Our main problem is getting the Ivy League to expand on the number of games we are allowed to play and extending our practice time. If we can do that, I don't think we need to belong to another conference to get the breadth of NC games we need.

css228
If you're going to reform the ECAC, you reform the real ECAC as the Premier with Providence, BU, BC, UNH, Maine, and Northeastern, The Ivies, Union (replacing Army because their rivalry with RPI is great) RPI, Colgate, Vermont, SLU and Clarkson for histories sake. Also if that were to happen we'd need more NC games.

Yeah, sure, but that's history. It's a history I understand and appreciate, but we're never going back there.

I mean, if you want to get really old-school, you wouldn't include Vermont or Maine, but I think we would all agree that those are two programs that should be in the mix. How do we know there are no other programs (e.g., RIT) that deserve to be in the mix? A huge, inclusive ECAC+ starts to sort all that out and leaves room for future developments (e.g., Syracuse and, say, Navy).

Cactus12
The bigger concern for me is that talented players who would otherwise go to remaining WCHA teams (UND, CC, Denver etc.) instead want to play for the Big Ten, which will likely have national TV deals and such. That being said, could further consolidation of talent/recruiting power out west could put Cornell (and the ECAC) at a disadvantage come NCAA tournament time? Probably not too much, but it's tough enough already.

I don't know, what you're describing sounds like a shift of power away from UND, CC, Denver, Miami, etc., and towards UM and UMN and UW and (especially, since they're starting from zero) PSU. I'm not sure how much this will eat away at the big New England schools' ability to recruit in their home region, as Scersk mentioned upthread, but if anything it seems like Cornell and the rest of the Ivies are in a better position to cope with this (assuming there isn't some domino effect that causes the ECAC to fall apart) than other schools because our sales pitch to a lot of recruits is different from what Minnesota offers in a fundamental way that BU's never will be.

Can't say it's good for the game overall, though it's a license to print money for the Big Ten schools and their obvious move. Michigan and Michigan State are so important to the smaller CCHA schools for attendance and credibility that some of those schools could be in a lot of trouble.

RatushnyFan
Let me rephrase - it would be horrendous for all the existing rivalries and it would be horrendous for the remaining pieces of the CCHA and WCHA if it happens. It might mean more money for the Big Ten conference schools, but it would be disappointing in many ways. What's so bad about the status quo? I'm just voicing an opinion, but my solution would be to leave the conferences as they are and let mighty Penn State flounder around. I don't care just about the Big Ten schools, I care about Division 1 NCAA hockey.

Penn State's addition of a Division I program is the challenge. There is no questioning that. However, I see no reason why "[letting] mighty Penn State flounder around" would be good for Division I hockey or for the advancement of the sport of hockey, particularly in the United States. Penn State brings with it a devout fanbase, and its programs demand and receive national attention because of this audience. That audience will bring immense publicity, greater understanding, and increased interest in hockey. A sport which we all profess to love. The addition of Penn State will advance the sport and its interest to people and markets that might otherwise remain isolated from hockey. Penn State's inclusion is good for the sport and for college hockey. Interest in the sport among these potential new fans and media sources could quickly turn sour if it appears that the established universities and conferences are snubbing Penn State as a newcomer or upstart. Forcing Penn State to meander like Alabama-Huntsville would not be soon forgotten and would harm the sport and its expansion. You profess that you "don't care just about the Big Ten schools" but it appears that your view of Penn State's new program is tinged by your status as an alumnus from Michigan, a Big Ten rival of Penn State.

I think that the addition of hockey to the Big Ten may affect established rivalries between CCHA and WCHA, and teams that will be part of the Big Ten but the Big Ten Conference will be small. It will have only six members at its inception. That will allow significant latitude in scheduling. Everything that I have read on the topic indicates that the Big Ten, CCHA, and WCHA are in talks to maintain the traditional rivalries that will be severed by conference realignments.

On another note, I do not see why the Big Ten could not award its championship title like the Ivy League does with its six members in the ECAC. The overlapping members of the CCHA and WCHA could arrange all of their schedule openings to play one another each year and then award a Big Ten Champion based upon the overall record against other Big Ten teams. It seems like this would be the least disruptive approach but I have not encountered it mentioned elsewhere. Perhaps Big Ten schools do not want to follow the lead of an Ivy League regime. I tend to think that the Big Ten is more interested in the revenue that will become available from media deals and championships if they become a full conference in their own right and that is why this possibility as been ignored or quashed.

Aaron M. Griffin
On another note, I do not see why the Big Ten could not award its championship title like the Ivy League does with its six members in the ECAC. The overlapping members of the CCHA and WCHA could arrange all of their schedule openings to play one another each year and then award a Big Ten Champion based upon the overall record against other Big Ten teams. It seems like this would be the least disruptive approach but I have not encountered it mentioned elsewhere. Perhaps Big Ten schools do not want to follow the lead of an Ivy League regime. I tend to think that the Big Ten is more interested in the revenue that will become available from media deals and championships if they become a full conference in their own right and that is why this possibility as been ignored or quashed.

It's all about home games. As it is now, they have to play half their conference games on the road. If they started up a B10 non-conference slate of B10 games as well, then half of THOSE games would be on the road, too. Forming a conference kills two "road game" birds with one stone - play the B10 schools as the conference games (50% of which were going to be on the road anyway), freeing you up to play 70 or 80% of your non-conference games at home. Home games = massive revenue glut.

It seems to me that it means that one more slot in the NCAA Tournament will be taken up with an AQ. That in turn increases the importance of winning the ECAC Tournament. (Or perhaps the Ivy League Tournament????)

If the ECAC were to be involved in this, I'd love to see us try to lure in Miami if they're caught floundering. The school fits the academic/athletic ECAC profile as well as any, the furthest ECAC schools are about as far as the furthest WCHA schools (Grand Forks [17hr] vs. Hanover or Providence [15hr]) they've got ties to the ECAC ( both Brekke and Topher Scott are coaching there now ). Once Michigan and Michigan State leave, I think that the athletic profile of the ECAC compares very favorably to what's left of the CCHA.

On first impression, it seems most logical to group CCHA and WCHA together if all the Big Ten schools leave. Why don't they simply do that?

ajh258
On first impression, it seems most logical to group CCHA and WCHA together if all the Big Ten schools leave. Why don't they simply do that?

I doubt the WCHA would be interested. They should be fine, particularly since Minnesota will probably always continue to schedule their in-state rivals and NoDak, and other than a random act of kindness I don't see why they would want to sacrifice home dates to Lake State, Miami, Ferris, etc.

The WCHA may take a run at Air Force, though. They're right down the street from CC and they seem at least competent.

I wonder if Niagara and RIT might be attractive to the now-far-less-Michigan-centric CCHA?

Aaron M. Griffin
You profess that you "don't care just about the Big Ten schools" but it appears that your view of Penn State's new program is tinged by your status as an alumnus from Michigan, a Big Ten rival of Penn State.

Not at all. I really don't care about Penn State one way or the other in terms of hockey. I do care about Bowling Green, Miami (OH), Lake Superior State, etc. Letting Penn State flounder around is probably an irresponsible statement (you're right about that), I'm happy if they join an east coast conference (not obvious logistically how this would work either), I don't wish them misfortune. My personal opinion is that this will negatively impact a lot of smaller schools with strong hockey traditions and it's bad for Division 1 hockey overall. Mentioning my allegiance to Michigan was meant to show that although I have ties to a "Big Ten" school, I still think that this is horrible.

Trotsky

ajh258
On first impression, it seems most logical to group CCHA and WCHA together if all the Big Ten schools leave. Why don't they simply do that?

I doubt the WCHA would be interested. They should be fine, particularly since Minnesota will probably always continue to schedule their in-state rivals and NoDak, and other than a random act of kindness I don't see why they would want to sacrifice home dates to Lake State, Miami, Ferris, etc.

The WCHA may take a run at Air Force, though. They're right down the street from CC and they seem at least competent.

I wonder if Niagara and RIT might be attractive to the now-far-less-Michigan-centric CCHA?

I don't see why, at least geographically; all the other CCHA schools are further away from Niagara and RIT than Michigan and MSU are. Seems more likely that they'd make a play for Michigan Tech (or, alternately, that the WCHA would try to bring back NMU).

(Or did you mean "Michigan-centric" to be used in a balance of power sense?)

RatushnyFan

Aaron M. Griffin
You profess that you "don't care just about the Big Ten schools" but it appears that your view of Penn State's new program is tinged by your status as an alumnus from Michigan, a Big Ten rival of Penn State.

Not at all. I really don't care about Penn State one way or the other in terms of hockey. I do care about Bowling Green, Miami (OH), Lake Superior State, etc. Letting Penn State flounder around is probably an irresponsible statement (you're right about that), I'm happy if they join an east coast conference (not obvious logistically how this would work either), I don't wish them misfortune. My personal opinion is that this will negatively impact a lot of smaller schools with strong hockey traditions and it's bad for Division 1 hockey overall. Mentioning my allegiance to Michigan was meant to show that although I have ties to a "Big Ten" school, I still think that this is horrible.

On the other hand: I don't care about Penn State one way or another in terms of hockey either, but if they have a successful program it increases NCAA hockey's profile in Pennsylvania (which is, overall, probably the "best" hockey state not to have a major DI men's program), and in turn perhaps makes it more likely that Penn could have a DI program again in the future. (And maybe you could also say the same thing about Navy, who would have another DI program besides Princeton within reasonable driving distance.)

Wait hold on... if the BTHC is coming, does that also mean Harvard is going to join Hockey East?

Trotsky

ajh258
On first impression, it seems most logical to group CCHA and WCHA together if all the Big Ten schools leave. Why don't they simply do that?

I doubt the WCHA would be interested. They should be fine, particularly since Minnesota will probably always continue to schedule their in-state rivals and NoDak, and other than a random act of kindness I don't see why they would want to sacrifice home dates to Lake State, Miami, Ferris, etc.

The WCHA may take a run at Air Force, though. They're right down the street from CC and they seem at least competent.

I wonder if Niagara and RIT might be attractive to the now-far-less-Michigan-centric CCHA?

Bobby Mo and Mercyhurst are even closer. And as long as Huntsville finds a home, I'm OK with whatever happens. Besides, with a 6 team league, the Big Ten schools will need to schedule plenty of non-conference games. They'll have lots of slots to schedule their old rivals.

Personally, I'm looking forward to a road trip to see Cornell play at Happy Valley

Josh '99
Wait hold on... if the BTHC is coming, does that also mean Harvard is going to join Hockey East?

only after NCAA Hockey 2012 comes out by EA Sports.

@ajh258 I was only saying to do that if the ECAC changes at all, which I'm not sure it needs to.

Also What about recruiting? Won't a major university in our backyard (3-4 hours away tops compared to all other non ECAC schools that aren't in the AHA being more like 6 hours) affect our recruiting somewhat?

You mean in Ontario, Saskatoon, British Columbia, Massachusetts, etc.?

@Josh - I take your point, a strong Penn State team is nice to have, but what if we've permanently weakened Miami, Western Michigan, BGSU (struggling mightily already), Ferris State, Lake Superior? My gut tells me that the remaining MN, ND and CO teams in the WCHA will fair better but losing the U of Minnesota and Wisconsin will weaken their conference as well. In the end, I fear that the college hockey pool may become more concentrated - why would any premier talent want to play in the remaining CCHA?

RatushnyFan
You mean in Ontario, Saskatoon, British Columbia, Massachusetts, etc.?

@Josh - I take your point, a strong Penn State team is nice to have, but what if we've permanently weakened Miami, Western Michigan, BGSU (struggling mightily already), Ferris State, Lake Superior? My gut tells me that the remaining MN, ND and CO teams in the WCHA will fair better but losing the U of Minnesota and Wisconsin will weaken their conference as well. In the end, I fear that the college hockey pool may become more concentrated - why would any premier talent want to play in the remaining CCHA?

By that logic, why would any "premier talent", whatever that is, want to play anywhere other than Michigan in the current CCHA? Or putting it closer to home, how the h$ll did Union get all those players to want to play at Union? Small schools compete because they are small, and some kids like small, and because they have a coach that can convince them it's the right place for them. They get kids who want an education and not necessarily want to hop to the pros after 1-2 years (Sound familiar?). If you can't recruit them, it doesn't matter what league you're in.

On another note, this doesn't need a separate thread; can anyone tell me if all NJ toll roads take the NY EZ Pass?

Jim Hyla
On another note, this doesn't need a separate thread; can anyone tell me if all NJ toll roads take the NY EZ Pass?

Yes. The NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway all take EZ-Pass (and Mass. FastLane...freakin provincial contrarians) regardless of the state/agency of issue.

[www.ezpassnj.com]

RichH

Jim Hyla
On another note, this doesn't need a separate thread; can anyone tell me if all NJ toll roads take the NY EZ Pass?

Yes. The NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway all take EZ-Pass (and Mass. FastLane...freakin provincial contrarians) regardless of the state/agency of issue.

[www.ezpassnj.com]

For those of you not familiar with driving in NJ, unlike most other places, EZ-Pass is not accepted in all lanes and is accepted only in designated lanes. These lanes are also scattered seemingly randomly at most toll plazas. And high speed EZ-Pass lanes are few and far between.

Jim Hyla
On another note, this doesn't need a separate thread; can anyone tell me if all NJ toll roads take the NY EZ Pass?

Illinois toll roads, which take I-Pass, will also accept EZ-Pass. Hopefully, you'll be able to use it heading to Green Bay next weekend.

Agreed... in the end I think that Cornell is not particularly effected because we have a different recruitment strategy.

Ronald '09

RichH

Jim Hyla
On another note, this doesn't need a separate thread; can anyone tell me if all NJ toll roads take the NY EZ Pass?

Yes. The NJ Turnpike, Garden State Parkway, and Atlantic City Expressway all take EZ-Pass (and Mass. FastLane...freakin provincial contrarians) regardless of the state/agency of issue.

[www.ezpassnj.com]

For those of you not familiar with driving in NJ, unlike most other places, EZ-Pass is not accepted in all lanes and is accepted only in designated lanes. These lanes are also scattered seemingly randomly at most toll plazas. And high speed EZ-Pass lanes are few and far between.

Huh, I thought they had those at most toll plazas on the Turnpike at this point (though if you're going to AC you probably wouldn't be taking the turnpike).

RatushnyFan
You mean in Ontario, Saskatoon, British Columbia, Massachusetts, etc.?

@Josh - I take your point, a strong Penn State team is nice to have, but what if we've permanently weakened Miami, Western Michigan, BGSU (struggling mightily already), Ferris State, Lake Superior? My gut tells me that the remaining MN, ND and CO teams in the WCHA will fair better but losing the U of Minnesota and Wisconsin will weaken their conference as well. In the end, I fear that the college hockey pool may become more concentrated - why would any premier talent want to play in the remaining CCHA?

PSU is a lot closer to Ontario than BC.Do you think they're just going to be recruiting only PA players?

Josh '99
(Or did you mean "Michigan-centric" to be used in a balance of power sense?)

Yes, I meant it in the "holy shit, we better do something to infiltrate other markets before we're back to the St. Louis Billikens" sense.

And to add to the list, the PA Turnpike and all the Delaware river bridges also take EZ Pass. Remember, you have to pay to get out of New Jersey.

And for you visitors who might be transiting Philly, KYW (1060 AM) has traffic reports every 10 minutes. For the most part they don't use the route numbers. I-476 south of the East-West PA Turnpike is "The Blue Route", I-76 is the "Schuylkill Expressway", I-676 is "The Vine Expressway", and the road leading from the Jersey side of the Ben Franklin Bridge to the AC Expressway is "The 42 Freeway"

Thanks to all for your help.

Trotsky
The WCHA may take a run at Air Force, though. They're right down the street from CC and they seem at least competent.

I wonder if Niagara and RIT might be attractive to the now-far-less-Michigan-centric CCHA?

USAFA and Alaska make the most sense for the WCHA, especially Air Force.

RIT would seem a good choice for the CCHA. It's hard not to be impressed with what they've done with their hockey program.

I wonder if Colgate, Clarkson or RPI might be interested in joining the CCHA.

Jeff Hopkins '82

And for you visitors who might be transiting Philly, KYW (1060 AM) has traffic reports every 10 minutes. "

Just don't be alarmed every ten minutes when the traffic is introduced by the sound of car horns honking...

Jim Hyla

RatushnyFan
You mean in Ontario, Saskatoon, British Columbia, Massachusetts, etc.?

@Josh - I take your point, a strong Penn State team is nice to have, but what if we've permanently weakened Miami, Western Michigan, BGSU (struggling mightily already), Ferris State, Lake Superior? My gut tells me that the remaining MN, ND and CO teams in the WCHA will fair better but losing the U of Minnesota and Wisconsin will weaken their conference as well. In the end, I fear that the college hockey pool may become more concentrated - why would any premier talent want to play in the remaining CCHA?

By that logic, why would any "premier talent", whatever that is, want to play anywhere other than Michigan in the current CCHA? Or putting it closer to home, how the h$ll did Union get all those players to want to play at Union? Small schools compete because they are small, and some kids like small, and because they have a coach that can convince them it's the right place for them. They get kids who want an education and not necessarily want to hop to the pros after 1-2 years (Sound familiar?). If you can't recruit them, it doesn't matter what league you're in.

I'm not a Michigan homer, there's a lot of great places to play. If one of my kids has hockey offers from Michigan and Yale (Cornell would be a no brainer) I'll let him make the right decision for himself factoring in all considerations. But taking Michigan and Michigan State out of the CCHA reduces the attractiveness of going to Miami in my view (from a hockey perspective only). If we can't agree on that then we're probably not going to agree on much!! Agree that it's a thrill to play D1 college hockey anywhere, but I think that this could lead to some negative talent concentration issues. We'll see how this plays out.

Be careful what you wish for. Exactly what do we mean when we say something is "good" for college hockey?

While I'd love to see at least some non-NCAA Finals coverage of college hockey on ESPN, I don't think I'd like college hockey to look like college football or basketball. College hockey is still the kind of sport in which "mid-major" is meaningless. I don't like what the big bucks do to the professional sports we call "college" basketball and football in terms of the "students," nor do I like the idea of needing a 20,000 seat arena to have the revenue needed to be competitive.

Scersk's idea would be great for competition, but will never fly if for no other reason than it's too professional (and too European). On the other hand, an annual crossover series between ECAC and HE, similar to the Big East/ACC in basketball, is a no-brainer.

Chris '03

Jeff Hopkins '82

And for you visitors who might be transiting Philly, KYW (1060 AM) has traffic reports every 10 minutes. "

Just don't be alarmed every ten minutes when the traffic is introduced by the sound of car horns honking...

But it's musical car horns (they play the station's jingle).

I'm surprised that with all the posting on this, no one is saying anything about the actual announcement. It's on both CHN and USCHO.

This is also interesting.

Boo!

Towerroad
It seems to me that it means that one more slot in the NCAA Tournament will be taken up with an AQ. That in turn increases the importance of winning the ECAC Tournament. (Or perhaps the Ivy League Tournament????)

32-team tournament?

Towerroad
It seems to me that it means that one more slot in the NCAA Tournament will be taken up with an AQ. That in turn increases the importance of winning the ECAC Tournament. (Or perhaps the Ivy League Tournament????)

Except at the moment, there are only five autobids, where there used to be six. So increasing it back to six doesn't really seem that impactful.

Good for the Big Ten no doubt. Maybe good for hockey because the other big schools rather than throwing in the towel will beef up their programs and do a better job competing with junior hockey. Maybe not good for hockey because the Cornells and Unions will have even tougher times ahead. Colorado College won't be happy either.

Alabama Huntsville is hosed regardless. Have to admire their spunk. Don't see RIT getting back to the frozen four anytime soon.

Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

Jim Hyla
I'm surprised that with all the posting on this, no one is saying anything about the actual announcement. It's on both CHN and USCHO.

This is also interesting.

I think we were all preoccupied with the fallout from Saturday, but I would like to reprepose the old ECAC adjusted for modern times if HE finds the BTHC is hurting them too much. I would do a lot to see BU in Lynah during my time on East Hill. Its a pipe dream though

billhoward

Alabama Huntsville is hosed regardless. Have to admire their spunk.

Potentially great for UAH. This may save the program by freeing up space for them in a conference that suddenly has a hole to fill. They can't afford to barn storm forever.

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

What about an NYC tournament?

css228

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

What about an NYC tournament?

If I had to settle, sure.

I'm still waiting for our game in Vladivostok.

Chris '03

billhoward

Alabama Huntsville is hosed regardless. Have to admire their spunk.

Potentially great for UAH. This may save the program by freeing up space for them in a conference that suddenly has a hole to fill. They can't afford to barn storm forever.

How about potentially high-risk for UAH? This is like trying to find a prom date, paraphrasing Funky Winkerbean: "Do I risk getting shot down by Mary Sue Sweetwater, or go for a sure thing with a real loser?" They could fill out a good conference needing one more member. Or they could wait for a better offer and get shut out when the, say, CCHA picks someone else.

Trotsky

css228

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

What about an NYC tournament?

If I had to settle, sure.

I'm still waiting for our game in Vladivostok.

UND seems willing to travel. I'm sure they'd oblige

css228

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

What about an NYC tournament?

.
Nice if it could happen. Local basketball tournaments might conflict if it's one week, and if it's the next week, that would shut MSG out of hosting an NCAA first round (sorry, second round i.e. the round of 64 / 32). Prudential Center in Newark would be okay. Spend the day in NYC, hop NJ Transit and 15 mins plus a 7-10 minute walk gets you there for the game. (Izod Center at the Meadlowlands really calls for a car.) But if MSG scans the attendance sheets for AC, they might not bite. Remember they so far have balked at going after the Frozen Four. But actually: Odds are it'll be the start or end of spring break for a lot of students, and most every ECAC team has, what, half or a third of its students from the metro NYC area.

billhoward

css228

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

What about an NYC tournament?

.
Nice if it could happen. Local basketball tournaments might conflict if it's one week, and if it's the next week, that would shut MSG out of hosting an NCAA first round (sorry, second round i.e. the round of 64 / 32). Prudential Center in Newark would be okay. Spend the day in NYC, hop NJ Transit and 15 mins plus a 7-10 minute walk gets you there for the game. (Izod Center at the Meadlowlands really calls for a car.) But if MSG scans the attendance sheets for AC, they might not bite. Remember they so far have balked at going after the Frozen Four. But actually: Odds are it'll be the start or end of spring break for a lot of students, and most every ECAC team has, what, half or a third of its students from the metro NYC area.

MSG isn't going to host a an NCAA first round or second rounds with the NIT finals and semis in following weeks. They don't want to saturate the market before that tournament.

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

Berlin has a better hockey rink, and unline the Metro, the U-Bahn runs all night on the weekends.

jtwcornell91

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

Berlin has a better hockey rink, and unline the Metro, the U-Bahn runs all night on the weekends.

Like JTW, I endorse the all-night U-Bahn.

(Just watch out for the aggressive hookers. And not in the hockey sense of the word.)

Josh '99

jtwcornell91

Trotsky

billhoward
Maybe the ECAC should do something to raise its profile like move the tournament to a famous city with lots of night life.

I would definitely go if they held it in Paris.

Berlin has a better hockey rink, and unline the Metro, the U-Bahn runs all night on the weekends.

Like JTW, I endorse the all-night U-Bahn.

(Just watch out for the aggressive hookers. And not in the hockey sense of the word.)

"What, you don't like women?"

UAH has an even WORSE chance than before, as I chronicled here ... [www.collegehockeynews.com]

Nice. Thoughtful.

UAH may be what the Air Force calls collateral damage.

Every time college hockey or lacrosse expands, it makes it tougher for Cornell to be prominent on the national stage. Cornell hockey a generation ago didn't have to worry about getting past a Miami, Notre Dame, or Ohio State in hockey. Or past Notre Dame in lacrosse last spring. (Did anyone see that ND lax juggernaut coming? I just thought Princeton had a bad day when they went down. Seeing their goalie against Duke made me a one-season believer and I figured they'd revert to norm once he left. Not so.)

We have to hope (the Ivies, Union, Colgate, RPI - places where you go for an education and hockey is a nice side-benefit) that the NCAA presidents and the NCAA pay a bit more attention to academic progresss in determining future scholarship awards. Or else give up and starting paying the players above the table.

Also, as Adam notes, Big Ten hockey will be inside the Big Ten office. Where hockey will be an afterthought. Never underestimate the power of bureaucrats to mess up and also suck up (revenue). Every time the office posts a press release using "facilitate" or "enable," I could see Big Ten hockey stumbling.

billhoward
Nice. Thoughtful.

UAH may be what the Air Force calls collateral damage.

Every time college hockey or lacrosse expands, it makes it tougher for Cornell to be prominent on the national stage. Cornell hockey a generation ago didn't have to worry about getting past a Miami, Notre Dame, or Ohio State in hockey. Or past Notre Dame in lacrosse last spring. (Did anyone see that ND lax juggernaut coming? I just thought Princeton had a bad day when they went down. Seeing their goalie against Duke made me a one-season believer and I figured they'd revert to norm once he left. Not so.)

We have to hope (the Ivies, Union, Colgate, RPI - places where you go for an education and hockey is a nice side-benefit) that the NCAA presidents and the NCAA pay a bit more attention to academic progresss in determining future scholarship awards. Or else give up and starting paying the players above the table.

Also, as Adam notes, Big Ten hockey will be inside the Big Ten office. Where hockey will be an afterthought. Never underestimate the power of bureaucrats to mess up and also suck up (revenue). Every time the office posts a press release using "facilitate" or "enable," I could see Big Ten hockey stumbling.

Notre Dame is less likely to join HE then the Big Ten. HE isn't going to want to expand their travel distance that much

css228
Notre Dame is less likely to join HE then the Big Ten. HE isn't going to want to expand their travel distance that much

Boston to South Bend is 900 miles. That's not a bus trip.

css228
Notre Dame is less likely to join HE then the Big Ten.

If your point is the odds of both are zero, fine, but I'd point out ND isn't going to the Big Ten because Notre Dame football isn't going to the Big Ten because an independent Notre Dame football program grosses more than some small countries and the Big Ten makes everybody join in all sports.

More bad news for CCHA. USCHO reports that Comm. Anastos leaves to coach MSU.

billhoward

css228
Notre Dame is less likely to join HE then the Big Ten. HE isn't going to want to expand their travel distance that much

Boston to South Bend is 900 miles. That's not a bus trip.

]

Trotsky
If your point is the odds of both are zero, fine, but I'd point out ND isn't going to the Big Ten because Notre Dame football isn't going to the Big Ten because an independent Notre Dame football program grosses more than some small countries and the Big Ten makes everybody join in all sports.

My point was that the odds of both are zero (as I know ND wants to join in everything but football and the Big Ten wont have that_. Increased travel distances even beyond that of a bus trip mean for increased costs. ND would be an outlier far from the HE heartland. Why would HE even want them?

If Notre Dame offers some sort of revenue deal - or they work things out schedule-wise, why wouldn't it go to Hockey East? Notre Dame is in the Big East, after all -- and for more than just basketball. ND is in the Big East for many other non-revenue-generating sports.

adamw
If Notre Dame offers some sort of revenue deal - or they work things out schedule-wise, why wouldn't it go to Hockey East? Notre Dame is in the Big East, after all -- and for more than just basketball. ND is in the Big East for many other non-revenue-generating sports.

Not drawn to scale, but HE is by far the most eastern of the conferences.

I don't think that this has been posted on this thread yet.

Battista said he has already begun negotiations with several teams throughout D-I hockey to fill not only the 14 non-conference games in 2013, but the entire 2012 independent season. Those schools include Connecticut, Holy Cross, Army, Air Force, RIT, Alabama-Huntsville, Princeton and Cornell.

ursusminor
I don't think that this has been posted on this thread yet.

Battista said he has already begun negotiations with several teams throughout D-I hockey to fill not only the 14 non-conference games in 2013, but the entire 2012 independent season. Those schools include Connecticut, Holy Cross, Army, Air Force, RIT, Alabama-Huntsville, Princeton and Cornell.

So they're taking UAH's place I assume?

Ryan Kennedy covered this topic a couple of days ago for The Hockey News in his blog. I stated in a much earlier posts opinions that are similar to his. He ends the article with stating:

Ryan Kennedy
The question now is whether hockey would ever consider starting an Ivy League conference - only Columbia and Pennsylvania are missing right now. That would crush the ECAC, but would again heighten the sport’s exposure. Seems like there are only difficult questions when it comes to NCAA hockey these days.

Is there any impetus for the six Ivies of the ECAC going alone and creating their own conference? I haven't heard about it in recent memory. I think there were fears that it would happen about a generation ago but not recently. I just wondered if anyone knew if there was movement for such a separation. It could lend itself to a network like the BTN that can alleviate the suffering of poor RedCast coverage and create a bigger stage for the Ivy League and its constituent members.

I think a strong argument could be made because out of all of the ECAC teams, only the Ivies have even been able to look somewhat formidable against teams from the other conferences. Cornell was the last team from the ECAC to make the Frozen Four, and Yale (2010, 2011) and Cornell (2005, 2006, 2009) have been the only ECAC teams in the last few years to even make it to the NCAA Regional Finals.

Aaron M. Griffin
Ryan Kennedy covered this topic a couple of days ago for The Hockey News in his blog. I stated in a much earlier posts opinions that are similar to his. He ends the article with stating:

Ryan Kennedy
The question now is whether hockey would ever consider starting an Ivy League conference - only Columbia and Pennsylvania are missing right now. That would crush the ECAC, but would again heighten the sport’s exposure. Seems like there are only difficult questions when it comes to NCAA hockey these days.

Is there any impetus for the six Ivies of the ECAC going alone and creating their own conference? I haven't heard about it in recent memory. I think there were fears that it would happen about a generation ago but not recently. I just wondered if anyone knew if there was movement for such a separation. It could lend itself to a network like the BTN that can alleviate the suffering of poor RedCast coverage and create a bigger stage for the Ivy League and its constituent members.

I think a strong argument could be made because out of all of the ECAC teams, only the Ivies have even been able to look somewhat formidable against teams from the other conferences. Cornell was the last team from the ECAC to make the Frozen Four, and Yale (2010, 2011) and Cornell (2005, 2006, 2009) have been the only ECAC teams in the last few years to even make it to the NCAA Regional Finals.

Don't really love the idea, because we lose a lot of great rivalries (Clarkson and Colgate for example) and we don't really gain much in exchange except a potentially easier route to an autobid. The truth is Cornell has been doing most of the work keeping the ECAC reputation afloat and would likely be doing the same in an Ivy League. Columbia and Penn would do nothing to give us a better SOS. Yale is probably done with their seniors graduating. Who else is going to step up and give the league credibility? Dartmouth, Princeton, Harvard? We'd be losing quality overall. Just nothing about the move would make sense.

I don't like it either........

Being a Michigan fan as well (grad school, they won a national championship when I was there, it's a nice feeling , I know a few of you young at heard had the pleasure of witnessing this at Cornell), I don't really like the formation of a 6 team conference. I think it will be boring and if they stop playing Miami and some of the other CCHA schools that they've been playing for a long time, it's simply depressing to lose those established rivalries.

Why in the world would you want to create an Ivy ghetto in hockey? Over time An Ivy conference would likely be weaker than the current ECAC. An easier trip to the auto-bid is a silly reason to support it unless all you care about is getting to the NC$$ tournament.

KeithK
Why in the world would you want to create an Ivy ghetto in hockey? Over time An Ivy conference would likely be weaker than the current ECAC. An easier trip to the auto-bid is a silly reason to support it unless all you care about is getting to the NC$$ tournament.

Yeah, yikes: the last thing I want is for Cornell to have to play 3 or 4 games each year against the likes of Brown. Wondering what the thinking behind such a proposal is: "I know: let's repeat the smashing success of Ivy League football and do the same thing for hockey! Whee!"

Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East). An Ivy League just hurts Cornell in the long run. It's not a good idea.

But moving the CCHA teams NMU and LSSU back to the WCHA, and bringing in all the Big Ten schools into the CCHA, without a "new" conference (meaning "Ivy them" ), would be nicer. It won't happen as I suspect the Big Ten doesn't want to be part of another conference, but it would make it easier for the rest of the hockey world.

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

Trotsky

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

No I absolutely know this as I had a long line of family that came here, some shortly before the divorce. I was just trying to come up with something that would actually work out better for us than an Ivy system. I guess a better suggestion would be if the ECAC were to swallow up Miami of Ohio, Notre Dame, WMU and Ferris (I just took the 4 strongest non Big Ten CCHA teams from the past year for no particular reason) I would do that. An Ivy League, just not a good idea.

Trotsky

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

To be fair there are some accounts that said the Ivies were thinking of pulling out to form their own conference and the HE teams decided to break first. At least that's some of what I remember from then.

Trotsky

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

Even if we dumb-down ourselves too?

css228

Trotsky

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

No I absolutely know this as I had a long line of family that came here, some shortly before the divorce. I was just trying to come up with something that would actually work out better for us than an Ivy system. I guess a better suggestion would be if the ECAC were to swallow up Miami of Ohio, Notre Dame, WMU and Ferris (I just took the 4 strongest non Big Ten CCHA teams from the past year for no particular reason) I would do that. An Ivy League, just not a good idea.

Seriously, I've got to believe it's all about the money. ND would more likely gravitate to HE or the Big 10. (Like the Big East has more basketball schools than football schools.) But an expanded ECAC with a nice TV contract and schools in Ohio and Michigan might work.

Remember, though, right now all ECAC travel can be done by bus. Once you add Ohio, the New England schools start to take a plane.

Swampy
Seriously, I've got to believe it's all about the money. ND would more likely gravitate to HE or the Big 10. (Like the Big East has more basketball schools than football schools.) But an expanded ECAC with a nice TV contract and schools in Ohio and Michigan might work.

Remember, though, right now all ECAC travel can be done by bus. Once you add Ohio, the New England schools start to take a plane.

I don't know how the math would work out, but if the ECAC could get a good TV contract as a result of adding some bigger schools that should pay (or at least help to pay) for those plane trips. On the other hand, four extra programs could create scheduling problems.

Swampy

css228

Trotsky

css228
Yeah pretty much to sum up my thoughts, we should only make a move that makes our competition and national profile stronger (random example pulled out of thin air - if the Ivies were to defect and join Hockey East).

I know it was just a random example, but some of the younger fans may not know Hockey East was formed to get away from the Ivies and our academic-based restrictions. They emphatically do not want us.

No I absolutely know this as I had a long line of family that came here, some shortly before the divorce. I was just trying to come up with something that would actually work out better for us than an Ivy system. I guess a better suggestion would be if the ECAC were to swallow up Miami of Ohio, Notre Dame, WMU and Ferris (I just took the 4 strongest non Big Ten CCHA teams from the past year for no particular reason) I would do that. An Ivy League, just not a good idea.

Seriously, I've got to believe it's all about the money. ND would more likely gravitate to HE or the Big 10. (Like the Big East has more basketball schools than football schools.) But an expanded ECAC with a nice TV contract and schools in Ohio and Michigan might work.

Remember, though, right now all ECAC travel can be done by bus. Once you add Ohio, the New England schools start to take a plane.

ND won't go Big 10 because its just too profitable for them to be a football independent, and the Big 10 won't make arrangements like the Big East. as for HE, the travel issue is even worse for them to add Miami and ND because all of the HE schools are in New England. It would be far worse for Maine to go to Ohio, Indiana or Michigan. I actually think the most doable thing for these schools (at least Miamu and ND) is to join the AHA but they won't do that because they do not want to deal with the scholarship limits. The WCHA might welcome them in, but it would kill Miami with travel expenses. That makes the ECAC an attractive place for those schools to fall. The Michigan Schools will probably end up in the WCHA, but it wouldn't hurt to try and convince them to come along. However, if the ECAC were to expand even by just adding Miami and ND we'd still need to address the issue of OOC games

Also, Miami of Ohio and Notre Dame would meet the academic standards of the other ECAC programs.

Looking around college hockey, the only even somewhat reasonable scenario I can see for the ECAC expansion is if (1) AF goes to the WCHA and (2) Navy goes D-I then (3) the ECAC might invite Army and Navy to join. Otherwise I don't see a reconfiguration. We should work on the schedule limits -- that's the only direction there might be any slack on.

I may have talked myself into it (who am I kidding of course I have), but I'd really like to see the ECAC go after ND and Miami. Miami can't afford the travel costs of the WCHA, HE probably won't expand to the Midwest, Miami probably won't go for AHA, and I think we're all pretty certain the CCHA doesn't stand a chance so ruling out some drastic realignment of the WCHA and CCHA, Miami and ND will be homeless. Once again, I think the ECAC could be a good fit for them. Regardless, we can't do anything without changing the schedule limits. So we need to work on those, but as far as putting a drastic idea out there, bringing in Miami and ND would not be a bad one and one I hope the ECAC officials would at least consider. It definitely raises the national profile and both schools fit academically as state before. Yes I agree this is a long-shot, but don't you think its a long shot worth looking into?

css228
Miami can't afford the travel costs of the WCHA...

Don't forget that Oxford is in the southwestern corner of Ohio, near Cincinnati. It's a 10 hour drive from there to Ithaca, further to everyone else in the current ECAC. I don't think that's a bus trip that they're going to sign up to do every other weekend for the duration of the league calendar, and if they're going to be flying every weekend then they may as well join the WCHA. As far as travel expense go, they'd be way better off if the CCHA picked up the western NY and western PA schools.

Josh '99

css228
Miami can't afford the travel costs of the WCHA...

Don't forget that Oxford is in the southwestern corner of Ohio, near Cincinnati. It's a 10 hour drive from there to Ithaca, further to everyone else in the current ECAC. I don't think that's a bus trip that they're going to sign up to do every other weekend for the duration of the league calendar, and if they're going to be flying every weekend then they may as well join the WCHA. As far as travel expense go, they'd be way better off if the CCHA picked up the western NY and western PA schools.

Yeah I'd forgotten exactly where Oxford was. Guess it doesn't make as much sense as I thought. You're probably right that the CCHA will make a run at RIT, Robert Morris, Mercyhurst, Niagra or Canisius. I just don't know if those schools (RIT excepted) would make for a good competitive fit in the CCHA, though with the big schools leaving the CCHA, what is competitive will totally be redefined.

css228

Josh '99

css228
Miami can't afford the travel costs of the WCHA...

Don't forget that Oxford is in the southwestern corner of Ohio, near Cincinnati. It's a 10 hour drive from there to Ithaca, further to everyone else in the current ECAC. I don't think that's a bus trip that they're going to sign up to do every other weekend for the duration of the league calendar, and if they're going to be flying every weekend then they may as well join the WCHA. As far as travel expense go, they'd be way better off if the CCHA picked up the western NY and western PA schools.

Yeah I'd forgotten exactly where Oxford was. Guess it doesn't make as much sense as I thought. You're probably right that the CCHA will make a run at RIT, Robert Morris, Mercyhurst, Niagra or Canisius. I just don't know if those schools (RIT excepted) would make for a good competitive fit in the CCHA, though with the big schools leaving the CCHA, what is competitive will totally be redefined.

I think CCHA will for certain try to get Niagara, Mercyburst, Canisius, and RoMo to join. I know that Niagara was not pleased about losing scholarships when they joined the AHA and the other three probably weren't too high on it either and they just make sense geographically for travel partners. I doubt RIT will move since it would be very tough for them in the CCHA without scholarships for such a young DI program.

Trotsky
Looking around college hockey, the only even somewhat reasonable scenario I can see for the ECAC expansion is if (1) AF goes to the WCHA and (2) Navy goes D-I then (3) the ECAC might invite Army and Navy to join. Otherwise I don't see a reconfiguration. We should work on the schedule limits -- that's the only direction there might be any slack on.

14 teams is pretty inconvenient, though. If we're going to expand, we ought to make the leap to 16 and split into divisions with extra crossover games for the Ivies. Assuming someone like Navy or Penn doesn't restart, it's hard to come up with four new teams. RIT, Army, Sacred Heart, and ...?

jtwcornell91

Trotsky
Looking around college hockey, the only even somewhat reasonable scenario I can see for the ECAC expansion is if (1) AF goes to the WCHA and (2) Navy goes D-I then (3) the ECAC might invite Army and Navy to join. Otherwise I don't see a reconfiguration. We should work on the schedule limits -- that's the only direction there might be any slack on.

14 teams is pretty inconvenient, though. If we're going to expand, we ought to make the leap to 16 and split into divisions with extra crossover games for the Ivies. Assuming someone like Navy or Penn doesn't restart, it's hard to come up with four new teams. RIT, Army, Sacred Heart, and ...?

Holy Cross

Jeff Hopkins '82

jtwcornell91

Trotsky
Looking around college hockey, the only even somewhat reasonable scenario I can see for the ECAC expansion is if (1) AF goes to the WCHA and (2) Navy goes D-I then (3) the ECAC might invite Army and Navy to join. Otherwise I don't see a reconfiguration. We should work on the schedule limits -- that's the only direction there might be any slack on.

14 teams is pretty inconvenient, though. If we're going to expand, we ought to make the leap to 16 and split into divisions with extra crossover games for the Ivies. Assuming someone like Navy or Penn doesn't restart, it's hard to come up with four new teams. RIT, Army, Sacred Heart, and ...?

Holy Cross. They're Patriot league in everything else, which means they already have scholarship limits like the Ivies. They can be Sacred heart's travel partner.

jtwcornell91

Trotsky
Looking around college hockey, the only even somewhat reasonable scenario I can see for the ECAC expansion is if (1) AF goes to the WCHA and (2) Navy goes D-I then (3) the ECAC might invite Army and Navy to join. Otherwise I don't see a reconfiguration. We should work on the schedule limits -- that's the only direction there might be any slack on.

14 teams is pretty inconvenient, though. If we're going to expand, we ought to make the leap to 16 and split into divisions with extra crossover games for the Ivies. Assuming someone like Navy or Penn doesn't restart, it's hard to come up with four new teams. RIT, Army, Sacred Heart, and ...?

16 with home and home is 30 conference games. Even if we all moved to 34 RS games that would only leave 4 NC (2 for Harvard plus their Beanpot). OTOH, home and home in division and one game out of division (i.e., a return to the three division ECAC of the early 80's) would be 22 RS, same as now.

The Ivies would insist on being in one division. Clarkson-SLU, Union-RPI, and Army-Navy should paired be together. Colgate probably belongs with Union-RPI. Put Quinnipiac with Yale for a city rivalry. Holy Cross is in Worcester which is somewhat near Albany; and Sacred Heart is in Fairfield which goes well with the CT schools. So:

Brown
Cornell
Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Qunnipiac
Sacred Heart
Yale

Army
Colgate
Clarkson
Holy Cross
Navy
RPI
St. Lawrence
Union

As long as we're dreaming, have Penn revive their program and then same table above with the Quakers replacing SH. And have Columbia step up so we can let QU defect to Hockey East. That would give us Boston, NYC, Philadelphia and Baltimore-DC as primary markets with Albany, Bridgeport, Hartford and Providence as secondary markets. Should be able to sell the broadcast rights to that to somebody. Maybe even The Ocho.

css228

Josh '99

css228
Miami can't afford the travel costs of the WCHA...

Don't forget that Oxford is in the southwestern corner of Ohio, near Cincinnati. It's a 10 hour drive from there to Ithaca, further to everyone else in the current ECAC. I don't think that's a bus trip that they're going to sign up to do every other weekend for the duration of the league calendar, and if they're going to be flying every weekend then they may as well join the WCHA. As far as travel expense go, they'd be way better off if the CCHA picked up the western NY and western PA schools.

Yeah I'd forgotten exactly where Oxford was. Guess it doesn't make as much sense as I thought. You're probably right that the CCHA will make a run at RIT, Robert Morris, Mercyhurst, Niagra or Canisius. I just don't know if those schools (RIT excepted) would make for a good competitive fit in the CCHA, though with the big schools leaving the CCHA, what is competitive will totally be redefined.

I could see Mercyhurst possibly making a push to get their men's team to be as competitive as their women's team, I guess. Overall you're right, those schools are a big step down from Michigan and Michigan State, but so is anybody the CCHA could realistically pursue as a replacement.

I think an argument can be made for the left out CCHA schools joining the WCHA - after which the WCHA would be split into two divisions. Each year the schools would have a "normal series" with teams in there own division. They would play the teams out of division on alternating years.


Take that, Big Ten - BHMHL (or Big however many hockey league).

marty
I think an argument can be made for the left out CCHA schools joining the WCHA - after which the WCHA would be split into two divisions. Each year the schools would have a "normal series" with teams in there own division. They would play the teams out of division on alternating years.


Take that, Big Ten - BHMHL (or Big however many hockey league).

Hey, let's keep expanding the leagues as everyone suggests. Then there won't be any out-of-conf games left for the Big 10 to schedule. They can just play among themselves. I thought of an emoticon for here, but decided against it.