Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by Germ
Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Germ (---.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date: May 17, 2009 10:59PM
With Cornell making the NCAAs in the "big three" sports (hockey, basketball & lax) it seems like this year could go down as one of the best performances by an ivy league school in a given year. And when you add to it the fact that we made the quarters in hockey and semis (at least) in lax I'd be curious what other ivy school could top the season we've had.
Princeton is the only school I would think could rival it but when they were winning in hoops and lax in the '90's I think their hockey program sucked. And when we had great lax and hockey teams in the '70's it was our basketball team that sucked. In fact, before this year when was the last time we made the NCAAs in all three?
Let's hope it's a sign of the times!
Princeton is the only school I would think could rival it but when they were winning in hoops and lax in the '90's I think their hockey program sucked. And when we had great lax and hockey teams in the '70's it was our basketball team that sucked. In fact, before this year when was the last time we made the NCAAs in all three?
Let's hope it's a sign of the times!
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 17, 2009 11:33PM
In 1997-98 Princeton won the ECAC hockey tournament (lost to Michigan 2-1 at Yost in the first round of the NCAA tournament), won the Ivy basketball title outright (got a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament and won their first round game against UNLV before losing to 4 seed Michigan State in the second round), and won the Ivy lacrosse title outright (their third of seven consecutive titles) and the NCAA tournament (beating Duke, Syracuse and Maryland to do so).Germ
With Cornell making the NCAAs in the "big three" sports (hockey, basketball & lax) it seems like this year could go down as one of the best performances by an ivy league school in a given year. And when you add to it the fact that we made the quarters in hockey and semis (at least) in lax I'd be curious what other ivy school could top the season we've had.
Princeton is the only school I would think could rival it but when they were winning in hoops and lax in the '90's I think their hockey program sucked. And when we had great lax and hockey teams in the '70's it was our basketball team that sucked. In fact, before this year when was the last time we made the NCAAs in all three?
Let's hope it's a sign of the times!
Unless Cornell wins the lacrosse tournament, it'd be tough to compare with that.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: KenP (---.nws.noaa.gov)
Date: May 18, 2009 08:06AM
You might want remember that sport they play at Schoelkopf in the fall. Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: May 18, 2009 08:09AM
KenP
You might want remember that sport they play at Schoelkopf in the fall. Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
But our league doesn't play in the NCAA tournament in that sport.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 10:10AM
Yep. We deny or ignore inconvient truths. No matter that Ivy presidents don't allow us in NCAA football playoffs, football is a de facto top sport at any Ivy school. An Ivy football title is an important as an NCAA bid in the school's chosen major sports. Our football history is not overwhelming in the years since formal Ivy League football play began in 1956:KenP
You might want remember that sport they play at Schoelkopf in the fall. Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
1990 - tied Dartmouth for title (lost head to head)
1988 - tied Penn for title (won head to head)
1971 - tied Dartmouth for title (lost head to head)
The law of averages would have us winning 6+ titles, or sharing perhaps a dozen. We're overdue.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: RichH (---.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 10:42AM
billhowardYep. We deny or ignore inconvient truths. No matter that Ivy presidents don't allow us in NCAA football playoffs, football is a de facto top sport at any Ivy school. An Ivy football title is an important as an NCAA bid in the school's chosen major sports. Our football history is not overwhelming in the years since formal Ivy League football play began in 1956:KenP
You might want remember that sport they play at Schoelkopf in the fall. Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
1990 - tied Dartmouth for title (lost head to head)
1988 - tied Penn for title (won head to head)
1971 - tied Dartmouth for title (lost head to head)
The law of averages would have us winning 6+ titles, or sharing perhaps a dozen. We're overdue.
Same could be said about basketball until 2008. What were our only 2 titles until last year? 1954 and 1988? So to answer Germ's secondary question about "the last time" we made the NCAAs in hockey, lax, and basketball in the same year: Never,
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:03AM
Yeah, but those people are all old, and getting older. No one my age gives a crap about Ivy League football.KenP
Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
Part of the reason why hockey and lax are worth watching is that Cornell can compete at a national level in these sports. In football, they don't even compete in the same league with the top national teams.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: ugarte (---.z75-46-65.customer.algx.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:05AM
I'd say that basketball wasn't a law-of-averages sport. Carrill at Princeton and Daly/Weinhauer/Dunphy at Penn were miles ahead of the rest of the conference on the recruiting trail and the chalkboard.RichH
Same could be said about basketball until 2008. What were our only 2 titles until last year? 1954 and 1988? So to answer Germ's secondary question about "the last time" we made the NCAAs in hockey, lax, and basketball in the same year: Never,
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2009 11:05AM by ugarte.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: DeltaOne81 (---.itt.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:10AM
Kyle RoseYeah, but those people are all old, and getting older. No one my age gives a crap about Ivy League football.KenP
Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
No one your age from Cornell gives a crap about Ivy League football.
See Bill's comment on denying or ignoring inconvenient truths. Its not a priority at Cornell because we suck, but if you were look at it from a league-wide perspective on sports dominance, its by far the #1 metric.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: ugarte (---.z75-46-65.customer.algx.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:13AM
The world seems more in tune when Kyle and I are not in agreement. Whew.Kyle RoseYeah, but those people are all old, and getting older. No one my age gives a crap about Ivy League football.KenP
Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:15AM
I have friends from every Ivy League school except Penn, and none of them give a crap about Ivy League football.DeltaOne81
No one your age from Cornell gives a crap about Ivy League football.
Even the big Ivy games, like the Harvard-Yale game, are much more about school rivalry than about the game happening on the field: most of the people who go to that game don't know or care about any of the other games during the season, as evidenced by relative attendance.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 11:17AM
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: billhoward (---.hsd1.nj.comcast.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 12:23PM
The best Ivy team would probably be competitive in the "NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA)" whose recent finalists have included Colgate, UMass, Richmond, Delaware, and Appalachian State. Would that the Ivy presidents let the football players have the same opportunities as the rest of Cornell's varsity teams.Kyle RoseYeah, but those people are all old, and getting older. No one my age gives a crap about Ivy League football.KenP
Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
Part of the reason why hockey and lax are worth watching is that Cornell can compete at a national level in these sports. In football, they don't even compete in the same league with the top national teams.
Finalists:
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 12:31PM
You're right: they probably would compete... in the scrubdivision created only to protect perpetually non-competitive teams from the indignity of being designated "Division 2." Bleh.billhoward
The best Ivy team would probably be competitive in the "NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA)"
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: ugarte (---.z75-46-65.customer.algx.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 12:55PM
*shakes cane and shits himself*Kyle RoseWell, to be fair, you're not "my age," old man.ugarte
The world seems more in tune when Kyle and I are not in agreement. Whew.
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 12:58PM
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 02:01PM
Was Ivy football already dead on the national scene when they created DI-AA? Probably but I can't remember. Being relegated to the lower division certainly guaranteed it.Kyle RoseYou're right: they probably would compete... in the scrubdivision created only to protect perpetually non-competitive teams from the indignity of being designated "Division 2." Bleh.billhoward
The best Ivy team would probably be competitive in the "NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA)"
The Ivies were never going to be designated Division 2. Classifications are for all sports (aside form playing up in one).
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 02:10PM
While I might be inclined to agree with those that want to dismiss Ivy football as less significant for whatever reason, it's tough to think of hockey and lacrosse as universally more significant in view of the fact that not all the Ivy schools play those sports.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: KeithK (---.external.lmco.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 04:17PM
It's a hockey board so clearly hockey is more significant.Josh '99
While I might be inclined to agree with those that want to dismiss Ivy football as less significant for whatever reason, it's tough to think of hockey and lacrosse as universally more significant in view of the fact that not all the Ivy schools play those sports.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 04:53PM
Which is one of the reasons why the Ivy "title" in hockey is crap.Josh '99
While I might be inclined to agree with those that want to dismiss Ivy football as less significant for whatever reason, it's tough to think of hockey and lacrosse as universally more significant in view of the fact that not all the Ivy schools play those sports.
But since the OP talked about NCAA tournament appearances, not Ivy League titles, I think hockey is more germane to the discussion than football, for which Cornell would have to (a) get the Ivy presidents to pull their heads out of their asses and (b) move to Division 1-A in order to have a chance at a bowl game appearance.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 18, 2009 04:57PM
I'm aware of the NCAA's policies on divisions. Arbitrary rules can be changed arbitrarily: the NCAA could let Michigan play D3 hockey if it wanted to.KeithK
The Ivies were never going to be designated Division 2. Classifications are for all sports (aside form playing up in one).
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: French Rage (---.packetdesign.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 06:31PM
KeithKWas Ivy football already dead on the national scene when they created DI-AA? Probably but I can't remember. Being relegated to the lower division certainly guaranteed it.Kyle RoseYou're right: they probably would compete... in the scrubdivision created only to protect perpetually non-competitive teams from the indignity of being designated "Division 2." Bleh.billhoward
The best Ivy team would probably be competitive in the "NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA)"
Didn't Dartmouth have a top 10-15 team right around the time the split occurred?
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: jtwcornell91 (Moderator)
Date: May 18, 2009 06:39PM
Kyle RoseWhich is one of the reasons why the Ivy "title" in hockey is crap.Josh '99
While I might be inclined to agree with those that want to dismiss Ivy football as less significant for whatever reason, it's tough to think of hockey and lacrosse as universally more significant in view of the fact that not all the Ivy schools play those sports.
But since the OP talked about NCAA tournament appearances, not Ivy League titles, I think hockey is more germane to the discussion than football, for which Cornell would have to (a) get the Ivy presidents to pull their heads out of their asses and (b) move to Division 1-A in order to have a chance at a bowl game appearance.
Yes, but we'd have to stay in
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: dietlbomb (---.twcny.res.rr.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 08:41PM
We're due for an Ivy football title.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Germ (---.35-65.tampabay.res.rr.com)
Date: May 18, 2009 09:27PM
Josh '99In 1997-98 Princeton won the ECAC hockey tournament (lost to Michigan 2-1 at Yost in the first round of the NCAA tournament), won the Ivy basketball title outright (got a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament and won their first round game against UNLV before losing to 4 seed Michigan State in the second round), and won the Ivy lacrosse title outright (their third of seven consecutive titles) and the NCAA tournament (beating Duke, Syracuse and Maryland to do so).Germ
With Cornell making the NCAAs in the "big three" sports (hockey, basketball & lax) it seems like this year could go down as one of the best performances by an ivy league school in a given year. And when you add to it the fact that we made the quarters in hockey and semis (at least) in lax I'd be curious what other ivy school could top the season we've had.
Princeton is the only school I would think could rival it but when they were winning in hoops and lax in the '90's I think their hockey program sucked. And when we had great lax and hockey teams in the '70's it was our basketball team that sucked. In fact, before this year when was the last time we made the NCAAs in all three?
Let's hope it's a sign of the times!
Unless Cornell wins the lacrosse tournament, it'd be tough to compare with that.
Uhhh....wait a minute, I'm changing my criteria...when was the last time an Ivy School (men's) made the NCAAs in 4 sports in the same year? I say that because our wrestling team made it this year and did fairly well.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Swampy (---.ri.ri.cox.net)
Date: May 19, 2009 12:15AM
So's Columbia.dietlbomb
We're due for an Ivy football title.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: grizzdan24 (---.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 19, 2009 12:35AM
Germ
Uhhh....wait a minute, I'm changing my criteria...when was the last time an Ivy School (men's) made the NCAAs in 4 sports in the same year? I say that because our wrestling team made it this year and did fairly well.
Let's not forget about Polo
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Jim Hyla (---.arthritishealthdoctors.com)
Date: May 19, 2009 07:38AM
Kyle RoseYeah, but those people are all old, and getting older. No one my age gives a crap about Ivy League football.KenP
Many people would consider that as equal to or even more important than hockey and lax as an NC$$ sport.
And you're not old, but are you getting older? Most people who read this forum or go to football games are getting older. It's just the right thing to do.
And yes, I'm old but like hockey better. As has been said, we are a biased group. Looking at my local Cornell club, most of all ages prefer football.
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Josh '99 (---.nyc.res.rr.com)
Date: May 19, 2009 08:41AM
More significant to us, certainly. Not more universally significant among the entirety of the league.KeithKIt's a hockey board so clearly hockey is more significant.Josh '99
While I might be inclined to agree with those that want to dismiss Ivy football as less significant for whatever reason, it's tough to think of hockey and lacrosse as universally more significant in view of the fact that not all the Ivy schools play those sports.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 19, 2009 08:59AM
And so many tasty ways to do it, too.Jim Hyla
And you're not old, but are you getting older? Most people who read this forum or go to football games are getting older. It's just the right thing to do.
Yeah, but are Cornell clubs representative of each class? I'd be willing to bet there's selection bias there. Given the crap the administration puts hockey fans through, I suspect a much larger percentage of hockey fans are anti-administration and therefore less likely to want anything to do with the official Cornell clubs. (I, for instance, have no affiliation with the CCOB, and have never donated Cornell a penny outside of hockey and the Pep Band.)
As has been said, we are a biased group. Looking at my local Cornell club, most of all ages prefer football.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/19/2009 08:59AM by Kyle Rose.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: May 20, 2009 12:31PM
KeithK
Was Ivy football already dead on the national scene when they created DI-AA? Probably but I can't remember. Being relegated to the lower division certainly guaranteed it.
The Ivies were never going to be designated Division 2. Classifications are for all sports (aside form playing up in one).
I was in school when the split was made. There was never any discussion about going Div.2 that I was aware of. Most of the discussion was around justifying the split, not about trying to relegate weaker schools.
It actually had something to do with football revenues. A significant issue was the seating capacity of a school's football stadium. Most of the Ivy league didn't have big enough stadia to satify the requirement, but in fact, Yale could have stayed D1-A, because the Yale Bowl is so huge, and so could have Penn, I think. I think Schoellkopf was borderline, I don't remember for sure.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: ugarte (---.z75-46-65.customer.algx.net)
Date: May 20, 2009 06:32PM
People, Kyle was using "Division 2" as "not Division I," not making a specific reference to "Division II".
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Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Kyle Rose (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: May 20, 2009 09:22PM
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: Jeff Hopkins '82 (---.airproducts.com)
Date: May 21, 2009 12:43PM
Oh.
That's different.
Never mind.
That's different.
Never mind.
Re: Cornell's Triple Crown Year
Posted by: David Harding (---.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
Date: May 22, 2009 10:54PM
Polo (the kind Cornell excels at, as opposed to water polo) is not an NCAA sport. Like Ultimate Frisbee.grizzdan24Germ
Uhhh....wait a minute, I'm changing my criteria...when was the last time an Ivy School (men's) made the NCAAs in 4 sports in the same year? I say that because our wrestling team made it this year and did fairly well.
Let's not forget about Polo
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