NCAA Regional Final: Cornell (1) vs. Bemidji (4) - FINAL

We had our opportunities in the 1st and 2nd, but didn't bury them. This happens when you let a team hang around.

We've been flat since scoring. This was about as good a set-up to sneak into the frozen four and it looks like we're gonna blow it..

Agreed, we look tired.

Al DeFlorio
We've been flat since scoring. This was about as good a set-up to sneak into the frozen four and it looks like we're gonna blow it..

No setup to those of us who said up front we didn't want to play a speedy BSU squad

We need a goal badly

mhand06
We need a goalSCORER on the roster badly

FYP

abmarks
No setup to those of us who said up front we didn't want to play a speedy BSU squad

Please. Look at to whom this "speedy squad" has lost this year. In the first period tonight the statistics showed they had NO scoring chances. If we come to play--unlike Notre Dame last night--it should be a terrific opportunity for us as opposed to drawing a BU or Denver.

Game over.

Goodbye until next year

Empty netter makes it 4-1 with 3:22 left. What a disaster.

Poor ending to a good season

I don't think anyone here expected us to get to the frozen four, so in that regard the season was a success to get this far. But it was a dull effort tonight against a team that wouldn't even have qualified for the NCAAs other than through an AQ. That's disappointing.

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
No setup to those of us who said up front we didn't want to play a speedy BSU squad

Please. Look at to whom this "speedy squad" has lost this year. In the first period tonight the statistics showed they had NO scoring chances. If we come to play--unlike Notre Dame last night--it should be a terrific opportunity for us as opposed to drawing a BU or Denver.

If being the operative term. We need to play perfect because we don't have the talent to make the quick opportunistic strike. THey didn't have to have any chances in period 1 if we can't put upa goal of our own.

p.s. who else thinks it was too early for pulling the goalie?

That's just rubbing salt in the wound with that save.

16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Really bad ending to a great season. We should have came out the way we did in the first period.

Helluva year for Cornell, and thank you seniors. They had a path, but they ran into Cinderella.

Thank You Seniors!!

THANK you, ugarte. I've been screaming at the TV about the "equivalency" statement they continue to make. So infuriating. Glad to know misery has company.

abmarks
p.s. who else thinks it was too early for pulling the goalie?

Not me. We weren't generating enough scoring opportunties with only 5 on the ice. Our 6x5 has been constantly on the doorstep.

abmarks
If being the operative term.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. If anyone had offered a game against Bemidji to put us in the frozen four we'd have signed up for that opportunity in a nanosecond. That's why this was a terrific set-up as opposed to the usual opponent one draws in a quarterfinal. But we didn't take advantage, and played a dull, overly-conservative game after taking a lead.

Bemidji played like a pretty good team tonight. Congrats to them. Our team went about as far as they could this year, and went the last few games w/o the Devin bros. If Riley stays, next year should shape up to be very competitive.

Salt in the wound with 35 seconds left - even though it doesn't count.

Congrats Bemidji. You played the right game.

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
If being the operative term.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. If anyone had offered a game against Bemidji to put us in the frozen four we'd have signed up for that opportunity in a nanosecond. That's why this was a terrific set-up as opposed to the usual opponent one draws in a quarterfinal. But we didn't take advantage, and played a dull, overly-conservative game after taking a lead.

Disagree. for one, prior to the BSU ND game I wanted to play ND - the styles matched up a lot better. CHeck the board- a number of us preferred ND.

ANd perhaps BSU plays *up* and better against the better teams., THey beat a few good ones during the year.. and clearly the beat teams of our style. Us and Notre Dame.

abmarks

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
If being the operative term.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. If anyone had offered a game against Bemidji to put us in the frozen four we'd have signed up for that opportunity in a nanosecond. That's why this was a terrific set-up as opposed to the usual opponent one draws in a quarterfinal. But we didn't take advantage, and played a dull, overly-conservative game after taking a lead.

Disagree. for one, prior to the BSU ND game I wanted to play ND - the styles matched up a lot better. CHeck the board- a number of us preferred ND.

ANd perhaps BSU plays *up* and better against the better teams., THey beat a few good ones during the year.. and clearly the beat teams of our style. Us and Notre Dame.

Aside from beating ND yesterday, they didn't beat ANY good teams during the year. ANY. They came close, maybe, but they lost all 9 games they played against tournament teams and that includes two losses to AFA.

I hope we weren't looking ahead to a FF tilt against Miami....

It looked like we were in slow motion in the 3rd period. And as soon as they put up that stat about us owning the 3rd period against NE things went south. With Shafer's system I don't think we will EVER have speed and this is tough for me to digest.

Maybe we were too tired from our game last night? Our fate in the NCAAs turned out almost identical to that in the ECAC tourney. We have an unbelievable come-from-behind game (Princeton and NE) and then seemingly fall apart the next day (Yale and BSU).

But all things considered if anyone had asked me before the season started would I be happy with an appearance in the QF I would have said absolutely.

Close game until the 3rd goal. We missed some high quality scoring chances early in the game and then looked like we had no legs left in the third. Goal scorers goal against us to make it 2-1 (did anyone see what happened to the injured CU playe behinf the BSU net on that play?) and then scramble in front of the net to make it 3-1 and seal our fate.
Unusual season with highs and lows but losing tonight after yesterdays comeback really stings.
Would like to see a more up tempo team next year. The past few years we've seemed to be content trying to win 2-1, 1-0 by slowing everything down but unless you can really convert your chances games like this will sneak up and get you in the ass to often.

ugarte

abmarks

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
If being the operative term.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. If anyone had offered a game against Bemidji to put us in the frozen four we'd have signed up for that opportunity in a nanosecond. That's why this was a terrific set-up as opposed to the usual opponent one draws in a quarterfinal. But we didn't take advantage, and played a dull, overly-conservative game after taking a lead.

Disagree. for one, prior to the BSU ND game I wanted to play ND - the styles matched up a lot better. CHeck the board- a number of us preferred ND.

ANd perhaps BSU plays *up* and better against the better teams., THey beat a few good ones during the year.. and clearly the beat teams of our style. Us and Notre Dame.

Aside from beating ND yesterday, they didn't beat ANY good teams during the year. ANY. They came close, maybe, but they lost all 9 games they played against tournament teams and that includes two losses to AFA.

Not so fast.

They hadn't played outside their league since New Year's for one thing.

Also, they lost to a bunch of tourney/good teams in close games. UMD beat them 4-2 and 3-2. North Dakota beat them 4-3 in regulation and 4-3 in OT. And they beat Umass. OK, AFA drummed them but that was back in October.

THese guys weren't patsies. Except for the second week of the season, they were playing tight games against the tourney teams, not getting spanked. Plus, their STYLE was a bad matchup for us.

You didn't learn anything from seeing them beat Notre Dame?

Face it, CORNELL isn't that good this year. Look at where some of our losses came.

releck97
Hmmm, I think Bemidji State is the only team playing tonight...It's about time to turn the volume down on the TV and just listen to Jason.

After the NE game, I thought those assholes were just pro-NE. But, it's now clear that they're just anti-Cornell. If a blind person were partaking of this broadcast, he/she definitely would have wondered how there could be a hockey game with only one team on the ice.

I would have turned down the volume. But, I was not alone. Not everyone can enjoy watching a sporting event with no commentary.

Losing a playoff game is tough enough. Having your nose rubbed in the other team's feces just adds to pain.

imafrshmn
Bemidji played like a pretty good team tonight. Congrats to them. Our team went about as far as they could this year, and went the last few games w/o the Devin bros. If Riley stays, next year should shape up to be very competitive.

Overall a very good season for the Big Red at 22-10-4. With a healthier team, they could have won tonight. It was tough to watch Gallagher limp around on the ice. Sean Whitney has potential, but he doesn't play at Mike Devin's level yet. We can thank RPI for leaving their mark on the Big Red.

Hopefully, Riley will stay for Brendon's senior year. I think the Cornell system may be holding back his development as an offensive player, but he is still somewhat thin to play pro hockey.

The team will miss Mugford, Michael Kennedy, Seminoff, the two Davenports and Punches (edit: and of course Barlow and Dileo), but in general could be really good next year. Hopefully, things will go well with the new recruits. Let's hope for a great 2009-2010.

very disappointing end to the season. it's like last week's ECAC games all over again. i realize that the team has problem scoring, but why can't cornell play consistently for two nights in a row?

It's the height of irony that after four decades of needing multiple major post-season upsets to have even a glimmer of a chance at winning the national championship, when, for the first and probably the last time, the seas part... they squandered it.

If there is any small consolation, it's that Mike found this program a ruin and brought it to the point where a team we felt had an okay shot at reaching reach Albany wins their ECAC SF and advances in the NCAAs, and tonight it feels like they let themselves down.

That says this is a great program, with many great years ahead.

But still, this is one of the 2 or 3 most frustrating nights in team history.

ugarte

abmarks

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
If being the operative term.

Thank you. That's exactly my point. If anyone had offered a game against Bemidji to put us in the frozen four we'd have signed up for that opportunity in a nanosecond. That's why this was a terrific set-up as opposed to the usual opponent one draws in a quarterfinal. But we didn't take advantage, and played a dull, overly-conservative game after taking a lead.

Disagree. for one, prior to the BSU ND game I wanted to play ND - the styles matched up a lot better. CHeck the board- a number of us preferred ND.

ANd perhaps BSU plays *up* and better against the better teams., THey beat a few good ones during the year.. and clearly the beat teams of our style. Us and Notre Dame.

Aside from beating ND yesterday, they didn't beat ANY good teams during the year. ANY. They came close, maybe, but they lost all 9 games they played against tournament teams and that includes two losses to AFA.

Why or why couldn't their "luck" have run out after their win against ND? It's just so sobering to lose to a team like BSU in the NCAAs. But, got to give them credit...scoring nine goals against two great defensive teams when it counts is impressive.

Germ
I hope we weren't looking ahead to a FF tilt against Miami....

It looked like we were in slow motion in the 3rd period. And as soon as they put up that stat about us owning the 3rd period against NE things went south. With Shafer's system I don't think we will EVER have speed and this is tough for me to digest.

Maybe we were too tired from our game last night? Our fate in the NCAAs turned out almost identical to that in the ECAC tourney. We have an unbelievable come-from-behind game (Princeton and NE) and then seemingly fall apart the next day (Yale and BSU).

But all things considered if anyone had asked me before the season started would I be happy with an appearance in the QF I would have said absolutely.

I think Yale is a better team than BSU. It's too bad they couldn't hold up in the first round.

If Greening and Riley stay, we could have a very good team next year. Losing Seminoff hurts, he's been my favorite defenseman for the last 3 years.

As to this game, we looked great in the first two periods. 30 seconds into the 3rd, I said to myself, "gee, we look pretty slow." You all know the rest.

Trotsky
If there is any small consolation, it's that Mike found this program a ruin and brought it to the point where a team felt had an okay shot at reaching reach Albany wins the ECAC SF and advances in the NCAAs, and it feels like they let themselves down hugely.

That says this is a great program, with many great years ahead.

But still, this is one of the 2 or 3 most frustrating nights in team history.

Michigan is a great program. BU is a great program. We are an above average program. We are no better than a consistently above average team that bounces up to being a very good team many years, but rarely, if ever, reaches great.

If things continue as they do, there will be many good to very good years ahead. But few if any great ones. To call it a great year we need to be in the FF

lynah80
I think Yale is a better team than BSU. It's too bad they couldn't hold up in the first round.

Except UVM > Yale > BSU

lynah80

Germ
I hope we weren't looking ahead to a FF tilt against Miami....

It looked like we were in slow motion in the 3rd period. And as soon as they put up that stat about us owning the 3rd period against NE things went south. With Shafer's system I don't think we will EVER have speed and this is tough for me to digest.

Maybe we were too tired from our game last night? Our fate in the NCAAs turned out almost identical to that in the ECAC tourney. We have an unbelievable come-from-behind game (Princeton and NE) and then seemingly fall apart the next day (Yale and BSU).

But all things considered if anyone had asked me before the season started would I be happy with an appearance in the QF I would have said absolutely.

I think Yale is a better team than BSU. It's too bad they couldn't hold up in the first round.

Maybe but not in this year's NCAA. BSU 2-0, Yale 0-1. Regardless, to get our program to the next level we have to find ways to win these QF games.

Trotsky
It's the height of irony that after four decades of needing multiple major post-season upsets to have even a glimmer of a chance at winning the national championship, when, for the first and probably the last time, the seas part... they squandered it.

This is exactly what abmarks is seemingly unable to grasp. We didn't have to beat a WCHA champion on their home turf. We had the CHA champion who didn't otherwise perform well enough to make the tournament...and didn't take advantage.

Agree with so many of the previous posts. It just took so much out of this team to score a damn goal against any decent team; no margin for error, and they ran out of gas. We had the real edge the first 40 minutes, but relatively few good scoring opportunities. I'm sure we'll stay competitive in the years ahead, but I don't have any sense that any dynamic offensive talents are on the immediate horizon.

We all would have signed up for a shot at the Frozen Four at the start of the season. But given the path that seemed to open up for us, this loss will linger for some time.

lynah80
The team will miss Mugford, Michael Kennedy, Seminoff, the two Davenports and Punches...

What- you don't think we'll miss Barlow???

Al DeFlorio

Trotsky
It's the height of irony that after four decades of needing multiple major post-season upsets to have even a glimmer of a chance at winning the national championship, when, for the first and probably the last time, the seas part... they squandered it.

This is exactly what abmarks is seemingly unable to grasp. We didn't have to beat a WCHA champion on their home turf. We had the CHA champion who didn't otherwise perform well enough to make the tournament...and didn't take advantage.

I do grasp it perfectly. But you are mixing aned matching your points. All that mattered was that there was 1 game played in a vacuum. A ingle event against a team that is running red-hot. As of this morning you really think we were that big a favorite? If you looked at this abstractly as a scenario from the pre-season - then yes, I'd agree with it being the dream scenario.

But you can't look at it like that. I'm saying that we had an upset win vs. NU... and weren't a good enough team to beat these guys. So what if it was the "ideally" easier path? I still think we had a better shot at Notre Dame...Notre Dame is better, but a better matchup against our skillset.

We showed all year that we had trouble with teams that could fly. I bet our *speedy - Krach* would be around .5

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

TimV

lynah80
The team will miss Mugford, Michael Kennedy, Seminoff, the two Davenports and Punches...

What- you don't think we'll miss Barlow???

Barlow sure went out with a bang... we wouldn't have got to NCAAs and maybe even Albany without some of his big goals.

scoop85
Agree with so many of the previous posts. It just took so much out of this team to score a damn goal against any decent team; no margin for error, and they ran out of gas. We had the real edge the first 40 minutes, but relatively few good scoring opportunities. I'm sure we'll stay competitive in the years ahead, but I don't have any sense that any dynamic offensive talents are on the immediate horizon.

We all would have signed up for a shot at the Frozen Four at the start of the season. But given the path that seemed to open up for us, this loss will linger for some time.

Yeah, losing to BSU stings. When we lost in '05 and '06 it was at least to the eventual champion. (I think) Well....maybe BSU will roll Miami and BU/UVM too and this won't hurt so bad. And, although things turned out sh*tty for us just think how UM, ND, and DU feel. They didn't even make it out of the first round.

abmarks
I do grasp it perfectly. But you are mixing aned matching your points.

Sorry, but my point has been precisely consistent, and has also been made by Trotsky and billhoward. It was about as good a situation as you could ever expect for a Cornell team with significant flaws to advance, and it's disappointing we weren't able to take advantage. With that I'm through with this discussion. I'm tired of...

This one just one of those games where you could feel it slipping away and knew Cornell wasn't going to claw it back. It's funny, I couldn't tell you where things really went wrong. After that first Cornell goal the whole room had a feeling we were going to put our foot on their throat and take it to DC. They're fast for sure, but more fast and out of control/wild. We got suckered into playing an end to end game.

I disagree with all the Schafer-defensive style haters out there who say we need to play more skilled offense. WE just need to execute better on the Schafer system. The better teams from prior years (thinking 03 and 05) forced the other teams to play our game. We were bigger, stronger and just beat the everloving crap out of our opponents. The last few years we haven't played nearly as physical and haven't been nearly as big. Let's get a few more Bâby's and O'Byrnes. If we're going to play Cornell Red Army hockey, let's get the biggest tree trunk defensemen we can and actually beat the crap out of our opponents. That's how we dictated our game and why we were such a dominant third period team. I know a lot of people will say "the game has changed - it's a speed/skill game now" but I think if we're committed to this system that's taken us pretty darn far, let's just do our best to execute it right/the way we used to.

I have high hopes for next year if Riley Nash returns. We don't lose that much talent and I think a Greening/Nash duo could be dynamite. It was a great year and hey, any season that ends with us having a shot to go to a Final/Frozen Four in ANY sport has to be put in the books as a success. It just seems that Cornell has been jinxed in the last 6 years in NCAA quarterfinals. We've lost 3x in hockey (Minnesota, Wisconsin, and tonight) an 2x in lax (navy and Duke). Two of those games were ot (one 3OT), one was by 1 goal (navy), one by 2 or 3 (duke lax). Oh well...kills you to be a CU sports fan on days like today. It's a shame that the last few years have had to end with the same thing - "Well, it's a lacrosse season."

GO RED

lynah80

imafrshmn
Bemidji played like a pretty good team tonight. Congrats to them. Our team went about as far as they could this year, and went the last few games w/o the Devin bros. If Riley stays, next year should shape up to be very competitive.

Overall a very good season for the Big Red at 22-10-4. With a healthier team, they could have won tonight. It was tough to watch Gallagher limp around on the ice. Sean Whitney has potential, but he doesn't play at Mike Devin's level yet. We can thank RPI for leaving their mark on the Big Red.

Hopefully, Riley will stay for Brendon's senior year. I think the Cornell system may be holding back his development as an offensive player, but he is still somewhat thin to play pro hockey.

The team will miss Mugford, Michael Kennedy, Seminoff, the two Davenports and Punches, but in general could be really good next year. Hopefully, things will go well with the new recruits. Let's hope for a great 2009-2010.

I think the player we will miss the most will be Evan Barlow. There were times, late in this season, when he seemed to singlehandedly (sp?) lift this team. There were times you could watch him come over the boards and know that something good was going to happen on that shift. A big loss, indeed.

To you Evan and all the rest of the seniors: It's been a great ride. Thanks for the fun along the way!! I wish you could have taken us to the FF. But, it wasn't meant to be.

Next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Al DeFlorio

abmarks
I do grasp it perfectly. But you are mixing aned matching your points.

Sorry, but my point has been precisely consistent, and has also been made by Trotsky and billhoward. It was about as good a situation as you could ever expect for a Cornell team with significant flaws to advance, and it's disappointing we weren't able to take advantage. With that I'm through with this discussion. I'm tired of...

Hmm bad wording by me. I meant your logic was flawed.. that would put it more as I intended it. I might disagree with the logic but you were certainly consistent. My bad.

Regardless, I like the way you put it here- this was about the best you could expect a significantly flawed team to advance.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather we go out now then in a heartbreaker of a semi-final loss (like in Buffalo) or even worse, luksak a semifinal win and then get smoked by BU/UVM in the final - that would hurt much worse.

I don't want that final game carrot dangled if we don't have a legit shot at anything but a big upset in it.

TimV

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

What is it the equivalent of then, exactly? A 49 seed? Bemidji wasn't just a 4 seed; they were clearly the last team in the tournament. While the difference between #1 and #64 in basketball is much, much bigger than #1 and #16 in hockey, from the playoff standpoint, it's the same thing.

TimV

lynah80
The team will miss Mugford, Michael Kennedy, Seminoff, the two Davenports and Punches...

What- you don't think we'll miss Barlow???

Sorry, my mistake. He will be a huge loss.

abmarks
Face it, CORNELL isn't that good this year. Look at where some of our losses came. ... As of this morning you really think we were that big a favorite?

I agree with your first point and don't know where you came up with your second.

We aren't a very good team this year. Definitely not one of the best 8 in the country. We, probably more than any team I saw play in the tournament, has a style that makes it hard to blow us out - and if the game is close, we can win it.

As for whether we were a big favorite this morning, I'd say no. But we were a small favorite. Against ND we are a huge dog.

As for whether we ran into a team that exploited our lack of speed, I'd say that for the most part they did not. They scored one goal - the second - that I'd attribute to their team speed. The first goal (like our first) was a lucky shot from the blue line. The third goal came as a result of an INCREDIBLY LAZY clear attempt. We got to the puck first but handed it to Bemidji to stick in the net. And I still can't believe that Mugford slid by the puck and left it sitting in the crease - we were there first then also.

I don't want to repeat what I'm about to type in the postgame thread but the short version is that we lost because of our team's basic flaws - the same flaws that every team, fast or slow, takes advantage of when we play them: bad passing and an inability to finish.

Lowell '99

TimV

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

What is it the equivalent of then, exactly? A 49 seed? Bemidji wasn't just a 4 seed; they were clearly the last team in the tournament. While the difference between #1 and #64 in basketball is much, much bigger than #1 and #16 in hockey, from the playoff standpoint, it's the same thing.

The NCAA basketball talent pool is so much deeper. I'd say that on any given night the 64 seed in hoops has a .00001% chance of beating the 1 seed. In hockey it is probably ~5%. The 16th team in hockey is a lot closer to a 10 or 11 seed. An upset, sure, but it is a lot less surprising than a Morgan State win over Louisville would have been.

Lowell '99

TimV

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

What is it the equivalent of then, exactly? A 49 seed? Bemidji wasn't just a 4 seed; they were clearly the last team in the tournament. While the difference between #1 and #64 in basketball is much, much bigger than #1 and #16 in hockey, from the playoff standpoint, it's the same thing.

The concept is valid- it is the last seeded team after all, but the talent difference between the 64 team in basketball and the 1 seed is much different, no? Use RPI difference in both instances and see what you think.

You said it much more effectively than I did.

TimV

Lowell '99

TimV

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

What is it the equivalent of then, exactly? A 49 seed? Bemidji wasn't just a 4 seed; they were clearly the last team in the tournament. While the difference between #1 and #64 in basketball is much, much bigger than #1 and #16 in hockey, from the playoff standpoint, it's the same thing.

The concept is valid- it is the last seeded team after all, but the talent difference between the 64 team in basketball and the 1 seed is much different, no? Use RPI difference in both instances and see what you think.

Well, we're really in agreement on the principles. Still, there's something about being Bemidji specifically that does make it pretty unlikely - they were like 38th in RPI. So that's either like a 10 seed making the Final Four, or the 203rd (38/58 ~ 203/310) team in DI college basketball, depending on which argument you choose to make.

Lowell '99

TimV

Lowell '99

TimV

ugarte
16 seed in hockey is NOT equivalent to the 64 seed in basketball. Jesus H. Christ.

Totally agree. That was so stupid....

What is it the equivalent of then, exactly? A 49 seed? Bemidji wasn't just a 4 seed; they were clearly the last team in the tournament. While the difference between #1 and #64 in basketball is much, much bigger than #1 and #16 in hockey, from the playoff standpoint, it's the same thing.

The concept is valid- it is the last seeded team after all, but the talent difference between the 64 team in basketball and the 1 seed is much different, no? Use RPI difference in both instances and see what you think.

Well, we're really in agreement on the principles. Still, there's something about being Bemidji specifically that does make it pretty unlikely - they were like 38th in RPI. So that's either like a 10 seed making the Final Four, or the 203rd (38/58 ~ 203/310) team in DI college basketball, depending on which argument you choose to make.

I think upsets occur more often in hockey than in basketball because of the nature of the game.