venting

sorry. just needed to state somewhere that olympic judges are DAMN stupid. after the rediculous decision of the judges in the figure skating competition I hope that the Canadian team absolutely creams, in fact demolishes, the damn russians. ugggh. i am SO pissed. stupid stupid judges. Thank god hockey isn't so damn subjective. Bring on olympic hockey.

My sentiments exactly.. everyone watching the telecast with me couldn't believe the judges...

Sounded like the crowd (although prob largely canadian) didn't approve of the results as well...

the crowd could've been some americans too...after all, canadians, americans....whatever... i was cheering for canada though. wanted to hear 'o canada' played...

and then I switched over to CNBC to see what was on after hockey...curling! US and Canada....gee, who knew, the US has a curling team...

They had US-Sweden curling on late this afternoon on MSNBC. The US defeated the defending world champion Swedes in an upset about as big as the German upset of Slovakia in ice hockey, the announcers said.

Well, this does lend credence to the opinion of my Canadian colleague that any sports which require judging rather than being settled according to objective criteria should be removed from the Olympics.

Of course, I'm just bummed that the Swiss got eliminated in men's hockey. In the late game I started off rooting for a tie to preserve Switzerland's incredibly slim chance of advancing, then decided to go for France because their goalie at least plays in Switzerland. But in the end both Olympic matches and both Beanpot games turned out the wrong way.

while I feel bad for the two nice Canadian lads, they must be used to it...figure skating is not a sport, it's artistic performance like dancing...sorry, this has been a part of this gig ever since it started...as for Canada thumping Russia in hockey...i don't know, eh... ...the russians are going to skate all over the cocky canucks with alex kovalev putting on a show...just my two cents...and no, i am not russian... O Canada at lynah always brought chills to my spine, i love it as much as the next Sloan fan....but unfortunately Canada will have to wait another four years for the gold...LGR!!!

I'm very glad I didn't read this before seeing the competition. Please, please ,please people -- some of us are on the left coast. Title as "Olympic spoiler" or something.

To risk everybody's wrath (and I preface this by saying that Jamie Sale will someday be the mother of my children. Yeah, I know -- I'm working on it.) I thought the Russian's program was much more difficult, and it was a toss-up.

I was hoping that the Chinese would land the quad, that might have split the tech judges 1/3 and reordered the result for the Canadians.

Come on, the Russian chick had a skateblade through her head a la Steve Martin. I can't get too mad at her.

Ah yes, NBC's prime time stupidity. At least the CNBC and MSNBC coverage is live in all continental time zones.

I do apologize. I honestly thought that since it was being broacast at 10:30 on the eat coast it would be being broadcast live on the west.....otherwise is just plain foolish!!!

otherwise is just plain foolish!!!

you forget that there are many fools who live in this country and that many of them run large companies...

Hopefully, they won't screw Sarah HUghes over...the media sure does seem biased towards Sasha though. Plus, we all know the judges have a thing against Kwan...they should really institute a bunch of marglars as judges, instead of the bitter apes they use. LGR, Team Latvia and Team Russia!!

It doesn't matter if the media is biased, it only matters if the judges are.

In any event, I wouldn't say the media is biased toward Sasha in the sense of saying she is the best skater. There is some focus on her now because she's an interesting story that hasn't been told a thousand times (like Kwan) or a couple of dozen times (like Hughes) and she seized the moment well when the President sat with her at the Opening Ceremonies.

But you're right about the bias against Kwan -- it's as if no matter how difficult her program might be, the judges always rate her behind a number of other skaters in the technical category.

I watched part of the Canada-US match, the first significant amount of curling I've seen for many, many years. It was actually pretty interesting to watch, for the same reasons baseball or soccer are -- the strategy. IMHO, it really should be interesting to just about anyone who played shuffleboard or pool or bocce somewhat seriously (i.e. not just fooling around but actually trying to win).

I watched the US guy, throwing his last stone, manage to knock two of the Canadian stones out of the target, not just once but twice, to stay alive when one point would have clinched it for Canada. The strategy is interesting, in building to the last throw, and the execution takes a good deal of skill. Like baseball, it's a good sport to watch while you're doing something else.

Interesting story on CNN this morning. According to the guest, a writer for International Skating Magazine, the fix was in last night before the skaters got on the ice. The French judge pushed the Russian pairs to first place. In exchange, the Russian judge will push the French ice dancers to first.

No idea whether the interviewee had an axe to grind, but it did seem a pretty abrupt thing to say on the air for a journalist who covers the sport.

I'll keep my opinion of Kwan to myself and leave it that I hope the woman with the closest ties to Cornell hockey wins the singles.

Even though she is considering going to Harvard?

Okay, as a figure skater myself (though nowhere near as good as any being discussed here...) I feel somewhat qualified to chime in. I do not know how the Canadians could have skated any better last night. I could not find one mistake, even knowing what little things to look for. The Russians did have one rather big mistake (though not a fall) when the guy (sorry, I won't begin to try to spell his name!) didn't land his double axel right. They should've been deducted points in both technical and artistic for that. Although perhaps the Canadians tempted fate too much by skating to "Love Story"....

As for the ladies competition, while in years past, Kwan may have been screwed by judges, I feel that she is now in the position of earning scores based on her reputation rather than how she actually skates. At the Nationals last month, she skated, IMO, a very lackluster long program, yet still received 6.0s for presentation. She didn't look alive until the very end of the program. At that particular competition, I would've given Sasha Cohen the gold, Sarah the silver, and Michelle the bronze. It will be interesting to see what the judges do next week, especially with Irina Slutskyia thrown into the mix.

One more note: Here on the west coast, as ridiculous as it is, everything is tape delayed. Some network bigwig wants everything shown in primetime, so our coverage doesn't begin until 10:30 EST.

Okay, I tired to edit my message and it didn't work. So here's an addendum....out here on the West Coast, some network bigwig decided that everything has to be shown in primetime, so our coverage doens't begin until 10:30EST.

I figure skated for 10+ years (and I've watched for 15+) so I know what Dianne is saying. Unfortunately figure skating is a sport with a subjective ranking sysytem and though i can't do anything about it I too KNOW that the Canadians were royally screwed. Almost everyone watching thought that they had won until those horrible ordinals were displayed. It is embarassing when judges pull crap like that. It embarasses the whole organization. I felt so bad for Jamie and David (tho, I know, a silver Olympic medal is still a damn helluva lot to be proud of).

As for broadcast times, this difference is only in regards to the main NBC channel, right? I mean, come Friday we'll all be watching (or in my case taping, as I've got some Cornell games to attend!) the games at the same time on CNBC, right? I sure hope so.

Did you believe that the two pairs programs were equally technically difficult? In other words, even though the Russians made a mistake, is it possible they got the fifth judge's vote because their program was noticeably more difficult?

I personally didn't think so. With the slip on the double axel it seemed like if the Canadians skated clean they had it. Had the Russians not had the slip up they might have had a better technical program.

What I further don't understand were the artistic marks. Clearly the Candians came out and enterained the crowd a lot more, they drew the crowd in with thier program and its movement while the Russians seemed kinda awkward in comparison. This should have been reflected in the artistic marks yet the russians seemed to have fared better in this category. maybe i'm just finding problems cause, like most other people watching, the canadian pair won my adoration with their spunk (and I AM canadian). i don't know. all i know is that it is a done deal. i can do nothing about it so i'd better stop complaining and just secretly hope that the russians get spanked big time come the hockey rounds. Go Canada ( and in default, Go USA!)

If both programs had been skated equally clean, the Russians probably should've won based on more difficulty. But since they messed up the double axel, they lose the technical marks for it. As Melissa said, the Canadians did a much better job drawing the crowd into it, and so should've had higher artistic marks. That is my main complaint with the scoring; I think their technical marks were reflective of the level of difficulty in the routine. The Russians had visible relief on their face after finishing each lift/jump etc., while the Canadians looked much more sure of themselves.

Dianne Miller wrote:

Okay, I tired to edit my message and it didn't work.

Care to elaborate on that? If you're logged in you should still be able to edit any post.

As for the skating, I think a step in the right direction would be to get judges that aren't from any of the participating countries. They show time and time again that they're not unbiased, so that would at least be a start. And never have French judges in general.

I typed in my addendum, clicked on submit changes, and got a message "Close Window _blank?" with a yes or no option. I'm using Netscape 4.79 with Windows 2000 Professional. Haven't tried it in IE yet.

I was confused the first time, because the pop-up edit window closed and it didn't appear that my post changed. It wasn't until I hit reload that I saw that it had. It's just a matter of understanding that the post is updated, but your view isn't automatically.

And considering that Dianne's follow-up post contained information in her previous post, it looked like the edit worked fine. She just hadn't refreshed the thread.

Oh. Oops. Didn't it make the change by that point though?

The figure skating results were extremely aggravating and disappointing. On another note, the finals of the men's freestyle moguls should be broadcast tonight. This is another sport where judges can screw things up, but at least time is factored in as well. Cornell's Travis Mayer will be competing, so hopefully there will be some better judging here.

There's already a thread that reveals the results, so don't look if you don't want to know.

why limit yourself to only two options?

C) Win Ivy Title, Cleary Cup, Placid and make it to the Frozen Four? Being a little GREEDY is a GOOD THING. What does this get us? Its simple, we know other schools will say "easy AC", so dominate the regular season (ivy and cleary) play well against better competition (yes same teams, but the DRIVE of the playoffs kicks in) and win placid, solidifying the team's claim as a dominant force. Then march into NCAA's, pull off a first round win, then take it as far as you can go, and no matter what play with respect. Nobody outside of Lynah and the Faithful EXPECT the team to do anything better than win Placid.

D) same as C), then call out the spartans and BC and see if they want to play a little non conference action next year. Go into their barns, and show them that the previous season was no fluke. A chip on your shoulder is ALSO a good thing (all in moderation)

The only legit amateur sport that I have watched so far is speed skating. And if someone convinces me that they aren't amareurs my heart won't skip a beat.

I enjoy watching the hockey but I wish the teams were still like 1980. Slovakia was loaded with NHL talent and lose to Latvia. Fun to watch but surely not Olympic in nature. There can be no more miracles. Sad.

And don't get me going on snow boarding. When will we have Olympic three card monte? I'm sure the Americans will dominate.

Okay, I see now that my edit worked without me realizing it. I didn't hit reload, I just looked at what came up right after I hit submit changes. Good to know that now.

Amen, Marty!

OK. I know that I said I was going to shut up about this but just thought I'd let anyone who hasn't already heard know that Canada is disputing the judge's decision in light of a possible conspiracy. some kind of investingation is underway. it's unlikely that there will be a reversal of decision but just wanted to let people know. i know that it sounds VERY petty but i am very happy about the investigation and the complaint.

They replayed both long programs this afternoon on MSNBC...just looking at both in terms of presentation, Canada was more telling a story and Russia was like the fluid movement of nature. Judging on the artistic/presentation alone, it's hard to decide since it depends on which you prefer. I couldn't help thinking....wow, it's like the whole Nancy Kerrigan/Oksana Baiul deal a decade ago...always some sort of controversy about skating.

Now back to hockey, who do you think will win the Olympics and who are you cheering for?

I don't like subjective elements in any sport, and I don't like that the X-sports seem to have been added so Americans would have a reason to watch the Winter Olympics (because winners named Franz, Lars or Boris just bore the U.S.A.)

That said, Kelly Clark's run in the halfpipe was smokin' and I was really glad to see it happen in the Olympics. The judging in freestyle skiing doesn't seem to have been corrupted yet, and the results always seem to match the athletes own opinions. And the highlights from the men's halfpipe left me slackjawed. Very cool. Still disappointed about Big Red Hannah.

Also, and important if it turns out to be true, assording to an article in USAToday:

Increasingly, this is not just looking like a bad decision, but a fixed one. After the pairs long program on Monday and the judges' controversial 5-4 vote for the Russians, French judge Marie Reine Le Gougne, who voted for the Russians, told members of the International Skating Union's prestigious technical committee, as well as a few judges, that she was forced by her federation to vote for the Russians in a deal that would deliver a vote for the French team in the ice dancing competition later in the Olympic Games. There also were very credible reports that Le Gougne is trying to become a member of the important ISU technical committee, and that it's well known that Russian votes are needed to get yourself elected to that post.

For the article, go to [www.usatoday.com] .

I thought Kerrigan-Baiul was only a dispute in the Kerrigan household. Oksana deserved the gold.

my other thought while watching the skating last night was..."Oh dear...it's like bush vs. gore again but it's in skating!"

Maybe the KGB will do the investigation.

Hey, I don't know about you, but I ski and I would never think about doing what those boarders do. They are as much a sport as speed skaters are. In fact I'd bet the boarders would fare better as skaters than vice-versa, whatever that means.

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one with a soapbox about the way Olympic hockey is set-up now. The miracle isn't possible. I hate the way the NHL has taken over the Olympics (is the NBA to blame?). Should be amateurs out there. The US mens team was a disgrace in Nagano. Plus, the NHL teams aren't even letting their players play. The Kings allowed Ziggy Palffy one game...he was in street clothes watching his team get eliminated. The Slovak team had 12 skaters for their game vs. Austria. Unfair.

Yeah...I'll watch and half-heartedly cheer on the US. I'll also root against Canada (let me explain)...Canada's last hockey gold was in 1952. I find some comedy that a country that is so hockey crazy hasn't won in 50 years, while the US (where most still need an explanation of icing) has won 2 in that time. Sort of a mix of US pride, and keeping that needle against my Canadian friends.

I'll also root for whatever underdogs (Germany?) come out of this prelim round...I'd love for them to upset some team stacked with NHL talent.

Shouldn't the fact that Canada hasn't won in so long have you rooting for them? Just curious. I mean, its kinda sad that the birthplace of hockey has has such a bad run. God knows that as a Canadian I am embarassed in regard to our poor showing at the Olympics .... tho I shouldn't neglect to mention that we came pretty darn close a few times, losing in a shoot out (which I have been informed the team has prepared for this time around!)

So is rooting against Canada kind of like rooting against Clarkson in the NCAAs?

I am pulling for Joe Nieuwendyk and Canada in the men's competition and Dana Antal and Canada in the women's. I'll also pull for the US teams in their brackets. I'm too bitter about the Swiss being eliminated to root for the qualifying round surviviors.

Of course, I may be bleeding from the ears after a hockey overdose from this coming weekend's telecasts of eight men's olympic games, two women's olympic games, and four college hockey games, not to mention the two Cornell radio broadcasts on the internet.

Yeah, Melissa...I should be rooting for them, and I totally see your point. Heck, I grew up near the border, and have often wished I had more of the Canadian way of life. I own a Canadian flag and a Canadian jersey. And I really don't want to laugh at Canada's misery about it. But I don't want Canada to get the gold and I can't really explain it to even my own satisfaction. Call it a really guilty pleasure that I'm ashamed of. If the US didn't have 1960 and 1980, it would totally be different. My unhappiness about the intrusion of the NHL into the Olympics makes it a little easier.

Good analogy with Clarkson, John. Although at this point, I'm so desperate to get an ECAC National title that I'd throw that hang-up away in a second. And I can't think of a better program to get it, other than Cornell of course.

> ...have often wished I had more of the Canadian way of life.

Sounds like a big, juicy set-up... but, alas, it's too late at night for me to come up with a killer punchline at the moment...

In case you weren't joking...

...just pop open a Molson's and stick your head in the freezer... Am I missing something here??

OK, zg88, that punchline wasn't too bad for 2 am.

Guess what I meant was that I just wish I had a better opportunity to learn hockey when I was younger. I had zero chance. And no hockey on TV until ESPN picked it up...I had to listen to the Stanley Cup Finals on the radio. They have Hockey Night in Canada since forever, and every sports news show starts with hockey. Canadian domestic beers are good. Toronto is my favorite city. And yes...I'm a freak and like cold weather.

Ever see the "I AM Canadian." commercials Molson made? The whole series is fantastic.

Note: this isn't to say that I'm not incredibly proud to be an American, of course.

Yeah, the back bacon!

It be pretty interesting to see Germany make it to the medal rounds. Watched them play and listened to the announcers talk about their stifling defense which if I had paid more attention to would've actually noticed...They did manage to keep most of the play in the Latvia zone, esp in the 3rd.

I'm really curious to see Germany take on the "Big 6" and their tossed together groups of NHL-ers and see how they play...if they guys need some time to get used to playing together, Germany will be kicking some ass initially.

Anyone heard or paid attention to the Belarus games?

According to a Boston Globe article, the Canadiens won most of the technical marks, and the Russians won most of the artistic marks. When you add the two up, the higher overall marks earn a first place ordinal. There were two instances in which the added marks were tied, in which case artistic impression is the tiebreaker, which in both cases was won by the Russians. That is the reason they won 5-4. Each individual judge couldn't possibly have known what the other overalls would be. I agree that it was a travesty, however, they have rules for a reason, and unfortunately, as we all know, the best does not always win, in our opinion. Also, unfortunately perhaps, the audience is not judging, so it is the artistic impression on the judges that counts, not on the other thousand-something viewers.

The better commercial was the radio station spoof with the Quebecker, "My name is Jacques and hI am NOT Canadian!" Too bad AdCritic shut down.

It's also kind of pissy that the NHL is insisting that any Olympic game with 50% NHL players requires NHL officials.

It was also amazingly self-serving and shallow for NBC to run their online poll and then announce that 95% of the respondants thought the Canadians won.

Hmm. The respondants are overwhelmingly American and Canadian. And the announcer has been blatting on and on about how the Canadians got rooked. And most of the audience still associates beating the Russians with apple pie and motherhood because of 1980. And even the 1% of the audience that regularly follows skating adheres to North American stylistics of skating (dynamism, story-telling, levity) rather than European stylistics (classical ballet, fluidity, stoicism).

Talk about "manufacturing consent..." Why not have MTV run a poll: "Who's better: Mozart or Madonna?"

Interesting ECAC note: the referee for the Switzerland-Ukraine match was Scott Hansen.

Who is the brother of my officemate's boyfriend, which makes us.....absolutely nothing!

Okay. . .now I'm with all of you that think NBC's programming is crap!!! All I want to see is the men's combined, in one segment. . .don't think that's too much to ask. But no, they have to show each of the three runs separately. . .every 45 minutes!!! What gives?!? Just show it all so I can get on with my boring life here in Ithaca (it's not really that boring but you already knew that).


Let's Go Bode!!!

Wait a minute Rich, you grew up near the border and couldn't get Hockey Night in Canada? I grew up here in Syracuse and put up an antenna to get Kingston for the broadcasts. Too bad I was a Canadians fan.

Sale and Pelletier of Canada will be awarded gold metals (while the Russians keep theirs) and the French judge has been indefinitely suspended. They'll receive their gold medals Thursday.